Autonomous Cars

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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Autonomous Cars

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Since I’ve raised the VW driver assist I’ll comment on my experience with its L2 capabilities.

It has a single forward facing camera above the interior rear view mirror and a radar unit in the front grill.

It has tuneable parameters for risk. At its lowest risk setting it drove close to how I would.

It only has lane keeping cruise control. The lane keeping was a little lumpy, drifting about more than I like but on clearly marked roads it was adequate. The speed control was very good at dealing with traffic ahead not only in my lane but the adjacent lanes. When necessary it dropped speed and increased it smoothly. It coped with a vehicle jumping in front off a slip road very well, applying the brakes lightly. (I allowed it to do this, I’d spotted the potential for the lane jumping as soon as the other car entered the slip road)

In light to medium traffic I was very happy to let it do it’s thing, it took quite a bit of the load off a 2 hour stints on the motorway. In heavy traffic, with occasional high speed stop start, it didn’t look far enough ahead to make me feel comfortable and I switched it off.

It convinced me that my next car should have this sort of L2 functionality.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Autonomous Cars

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Just_a_fan wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 11:38
henry wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 11:28

It does highlight the need for standards, the data mungers apply a different economy standard from the DSG programmers.
Of course, the DSG "knows" about the engine's characteristics and so might well be changing gear appropriately for maximum economy. The plug in thingy will just be using a general "change up early" rule for economy.

That's the problem with applying the general to the specific.
I think that was my point. If one group sets one standard for driving safely and another something different there is potential for conflict. Time for some global rules to match a global economy in vehicles?
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Autonomous Cars

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When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Autonomous Cars

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In an urban environment, that sort of thing would be great. =D>
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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loner
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Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 18:34

Re: Autonomous Cars

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you ain't see nothing yet :wink:


@APBusiness
51m51 minutes ago
With a technological a shift to self-driving and electric vehicles, General Motors is slashing 14,700 jobs in North America and may shutter 5 plants.
para bellum.

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Autonomous Cars

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loner wrote:
26 Nov 2018, 19:17
you ain't see nothing yet :wink:


@APBusiness
51m51 minutes ago
With a technological a shift to self-driving and electric vehicles, General Motors is slashing 14,700 jobs in North America and may shutter 5 plants.
Dyson is set to be producing electric cars in Texas by 2023 and building a billion $ battery factory there.

Conjunction with Uni of Texas.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

AJI
AJI
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Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

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In the interests of balance, comrades.

https://amp.theage.com.au/national/the- ... 50hpl.html

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Phil
66
Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: Autonomous Cars

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I find it quite amusing that such an article needs posting, given most would come to the same conclusion based on simple logical reasoning.

I have actually made those same points and more in this very topic.

But on the topic of that Volkswagen Sedric reveal in Shanghai... nice. What a future to be hold. Cant wait for the hundred-thousands of mobile “livingrooms” tootling around at 10kmh...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

AJI
AJI
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Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

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Phil wrote:
26 Nov 2018, 23:15
I find it quite amusing that such an article needs posting, given most would come to the same conclusion based on simple logical reasoning.

I have actually made those same points and more in this very topic.

But on the topic of that Volkswagen Sedric reveal in Shanghai... nice. What a future to be hold. Cant wait for the hundred-thousands of mobile “livingrooms” tootling around at 10kmh...
I actually posted it specifically for you Phil. I'm not entirely blinkered to the argument. In future I'll just go with confirmation bias articles that entirely serve my stance if you're not interested...
You have to admit, that article is pretty over the top. Clearly Infrastructure Victoria weren't interested in his opinion...

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Autonomous Cars

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Except that for many people this train does not come within 40 miles of the start point or destination.

New cities in Australia really can not be compared with towns and cities began a thousand years ago.
A trip along the coast where the population live within cycling distance of the coastal line it may work.
Where population has to get from old towns, some in valleys not much wider than the Australian beach or where a town is surrounded by hills on 3 sides and the employment center is on the 4th side and a river needs to be crossed before they can set out that way are far different things. Where dormitory towns have grown in a ring around the employment centre or city are the same, it would look like a bicycle wheel from space, and those who had to move out to build the spokes will not be impressed.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: Autonomous Cars

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The world is a little larger than the 20 million people living in Australia. My guess is, the Australian market alone couldnt even account for a 0.1 percentage of the R&D required to even sustain it.

But if we want to talk about Australia and pretend it means anything, i’m guessing most people dont require to traverse very far distances. You work in the city, you probably live in it or close to it. The majority of people live around the metropolitian areas anyway, e.g. Sydney and Melbourne, and public transportation isnt THAT bad there.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

AJI
AJI
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Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

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Phil wrote:
27 Nov 2018, 00:03
The world is a little larger than the 20 million people living in Australia. My guess is, the Australian market alone couldnt even account for a 0.1 percentage of the R&D required to even sustain it.

But if we want to talk about Australia and pretend it means anything, i’m guessing most people dont require to traverse very far distances. You work in the city, you probably live in it or close to it. The majority of people live around the metropolitian areas anyway, e.g. Sydney and Melbourne, and public transportation isnt THAT bad there.
No need to insult Australia, and it's now a massive 25 million, actually. You've been here, you know the distances, you know the sparseness of population and you know how terrible our public transportation system is. As far as R&D goes, the rest of the world owe us a favour anyway, Australia has done more than it's fair share.

I'm not really sure why you're annoyed with me anyway? I post an article that says the exact opposite to the Infrastructure Vic doc which supports your view on PT and you suggest it's pointless because you've already said it. Well, now we know there is definitely one other person in the world who shares your view.

What's really amusing is that a guy who drives possibly one of the single most impractical cars in the universe is also the worlds biggest supporter of public transport. I mean, a McLaren F1 is more practical. At least my car can fit 5 adults comfortably...

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: Autonomous Cars

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I apologise, i didn't mean to sound insulting or condescending. :oops:

But the point I was trying to convey is that Australia is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Doesn't mean I can't relate to your and undoubtedly many other Australians situation of having to traverse distances with few public transportation options. Having said that, most people in Australia do live around the metropolitan areas where there are public transportation options (e.g. buses). Not going to argue that they are perfect or comfortable, but I've been there and used them.

I could well take Switzerland as the other end of the extreme. We have roughly 8 million citizens living across 40'000 km^2 (living area is quite a bit smaller due to lakes and mountains with an altitude of over 2000m) so we have a very large population density. Apparently, at the same time, we have the most dense train network in the world. Traversing from town to town or larger distances and/or into the cities is easy, fast, safe and efficient.

The point being, it would be unfair to tackle the entire AV argument using Switzerland or Australia as any point of reference or benchmark. On the other hand though, any place that sees an increase in population leading to congestion is highlighting the problem it will eventually lead to; more people, more congestion, more time in traffic, lower travel speeds, less desire to use 'cars as a transport method'.

The question is; when will your place get there? Is it already? In 5 years? 10? 50?

Autonomous vehicles is not solving the problem of 'efficiency' nor will it solve the issue of having more and more cars on the road. So does it really make sense to invest into a future of AVs instead of lets say a better public transportation network?

It flies against the whole reasoning and goal of wanting to be more [energy] efficient. The automotive industry is just looking for ways to sustain their business model a little while longer...


PS: Oh and btw; you are right, my Exige isn't very practical. Despite living in perhaps the most convenient country on this planet in regards to public transportation, I don't use it. I'm not even a fan of it. But on the topic of AVs I can actually put aside my personal preference and objectively discuss what makes economic sense and what doesn't. Driving my Lotus isn't. But I can see beyond that. So I am not arguing as a pro car enthusiast or an anti-AV person. I'm simply making educated guesses of where the future is heading and questioning if AVs is really the answer to any of the increasing problems we are facing.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

AJI
AJI
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Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

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On behalf of Australians everywhere, apology accepted. :wink:

You know what I really find really amusing; this topic is consistently on the front page of 'Active Topics' in what I would consider to be the best F1 forum in the world. There's gotta be something to that..? Strad must be so pissed that he started it :lol:

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subcritical71
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Joined: 17 Jul 2018, 20:04
Location: USA-Florida

Re: Autonomous Cars

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And if ever there was an industry or company that could use autonomy, it would be the train industry / SBB.