Jaguar pulling out

[Monstrobolaxa]

loosing a Giant constructor like Jag who was about to begin puting his nose in the front grids at 05 is a disaster , i'm a Jag supporter and if they lost Webber this year they were in talks with Davidson who confirmed a positive result ...

i know that Ford's exuse was money , but all of the exuses in the end will send us to see that Jag was about loosing HSBC and Becks also Red Bull ... the results of the team were bad this year but at least they managed to keep fast cars behind them , Ford was about to re-name Jag into Ford and they didn't ! they were about to bring all the money into Jag to make it a gr8 car and they didn't ...

!

LOL!! Jag whos about to put its car in the front of the grid in 05?
hehe... im not being mean or anything but where have you been the past how ever many years Jags been racing?

Ford's intention from the START was not to win championships but to get the name Jaguar out to the world. The reason they lost HSBC was because of its lack of performance and non committment.

Yup Sharkie is right! Though both things are inter-connected! Cause in order to have media coverage of the team it's better to have some success!

[Mclaren11]

assuming mclaren finish 5th and the grid falls to 18 cars would that mean that they could run three race cars and a test car on fridays or would the test car become the third car. it would be awesome to see 4 McLarens in a row on the track. also because jag was the main team interested in DC, he could run the third McLaren, if they decided to run three cars.

[Guest]

interesting to see if Ford/Jag are going to sell the whole facility in the light of a posssible LM commitment...
If they sell the whole lot they´d losse another oneor two years recruiting new personnel,building a new site etc....I don´t think that is on the cards.
So there´s nothing more on sale than some old ,slow cars and a buckets of spares really....

[Jag]

loosing a Giant constructor like Jag who was about to begin puting his nose in the front grids at 05 is a disaster , i'm a Jag supporter and if they lost Webber this year they were in talks with Davidson who confirmed a positive result ...

i know that Ford's exuse was money , but all of the exuses in the end will send us to see that Jag was about loosing HSBC and Becks also Red Bull ... the results of the team were bad this year but at least they managed to keep fast cars behind them , Ford was about to re-name Jag into Ford and they didn't ! they were about to bring all the money into Jag to make it a gr8 car and they didn't ...

!

LOL!! Jag whos about to put its car in the front of the grid in 05?
hehe... im not being mean or anything but where have you been the past how ever many years Jags been racing?

Ford's intention from the START was not to win championships but to get the name Jaguar out to the world. The reason they lost HSBC was because of its lack of performance and non committment.

Yup Sharkie is right! Though both things are inter-connected! Cause in order to have media coverage of the team it's better to have some success!

Okay ... well mates i got ur points but we saw BAR since 99 till 03 what it did ! they weren't okay ! this year BAR built a superb car , Jaguar could done the same , why Jaguar can't be in the front grid ? at least in top 6 ! R4 and the cars b4 were finishing the races sometimes in 6 and 4rth positions and the 2 podiums Eddie Irvine got to Jag in a R3 which was so weak against Renault in Monza ... Jaguar confirmed that Ford was going to give them a bigger budget which make them competitive in 05 , i know it's all fake promises , when Ford was going to enter the F1 Back Seriously do u think they were going to leave the team as it is ? and when the V8's were going back to F1 in the coming seasons who'll success ?! wasn't Ford Dominant on all other engines in the 80s and 90s ?

[Guest]

you´d have to say F1 is not only about money ,but without money you just cannot compete.
Toyota has the budget but they do not look any better than say Sauber looked at the beginning of there F1 venture.
Coincidently Mike Gascoyne was there at those times....The bold claim he could turn things around dramatically was complete nonsense as now we have a reversal of the situation with the huge investments in the new car
for nothing all playing against him.
Jaguar lost when they failed to retain Neway imo.The politics behind these moves have destroyed the necessary steep upturn of Jaguar as ateam,with only Webber having the glowing shine and carisma to lift the spirits.But it just wasn´t enough.
Jaguar has to pay the price for wasting lots of resources at the beginning,unable to commit to a leader .Rahal,Lauda would both have succeeded if in leadership alone,but in the end both left and took with them suitcases full of compensation.....

[sharkie17]

LOL!! Jag whos about to put its car in the front of the grid in 05?
hehe... im not being mean or anything but where have you been the past how ever many years Jags been racing?

Ford's intention from the START was not to win championships but to get the name Jaguar out to the world. The reason they lost HSBC was because of its lack of performance and non committment.

Yup Sharkie is right! Though both things are inter-connected! Cause in order to have media coverage of the team it's better to have some success!

Okay ... well mates i got ur points but we saw BAR since 99 till 03 what it did ! they weren't okay ! this year BAR built a superb car , Jaguar could done the same , why Jaguar can't be in the front grid ? at least in top 6 ! R4 and the cars b4 were finishing the races sometimes in 6 and 4rth positions and the 2 podiums Eddie Irvine got to Jag in a R3 which was so weak against Renault in Monza ... Jaguar confirmed that Ford was going to give them a bigger budget which make them competitive in 05 , i know it's all fake promises , when Ford was going to enter the F1 Back Seriously do u think they were going to leave the team as it is ? and when the V8's were going back to F1 in the coming seasons who'll success ?! wasn't Ford Dominant on all other engines in the 80s and 90s ?

you said so yourself:
promise from Ford of more money didnt materiaize...
Ford never intended to win a championship from get go...
Ford knew from the start that established teams such as Williams, Mclaren and Ferrari would have a strong foundations and resources which Ford did not have... which means that it would take them years to establish same type of foundation... Ford executives thought that having a Jaguar team would establish its marque with the buying public (which it did) and sell more cars. (which it certainly did).
mission accomplished, pull the plug.

This practice is NOT new to American auto industry. Chevrolet pulled out of CART as soon as it won its championship.

and yes, Cosworth engines were dominant for a period... from late 60s to 80s i think, DFV v8.... but do you think that other engine manufacturers will sit on their butts?

[GuestAgain]

Monstro.... wrote:

The top 4 teams from 2004 would have to run a third car all the other teams could choose if they wanted to or not.

The teams do not HAVE to run a 3rd car. Rather, contractually (i.e re commercial & TV rights), the circus master (AKA Bernie) must have a minimun 20 cars on the grid. So he (& Max) must persuade the teams (or some of them) to run a third car. If they refuse, then he is sunk (& may be the teams as well since F1 may no longer exist)

[Monstrobolaxa]

Check out:

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=63714

Monstro.... wrote:

The top 4 teams from 2004 would have to run a third car all the other teams could choose if they wanted to or not.

The teams do not HAVE to run a 3rd car. Rather, contractually (i.e re commercial & TV rights), the circus master (AKA Bernie) must have a minimun 20 cars on the grid. So he (& Max) must persuade the teams (or some of them) to run a third car. If they refuse, then he is sunk (& may be the teams as well since F1 may no longer exist)

That is true....but they don't have to persuade them cause they already though about it in 1996/7 when making the concorde agreement it is already stated that is the number drops below 20, 4 teams will have to race a 3rd car....though according to what I've read it would be the top 4 from the previous year...and not going to the ballet. Since 2002 they've been talking about the problem...and always stated the 4 top teams....

Probably the ballet solution is a slight change so that the small teams don't complain about the extra exposure the big teams will get.

[Monstrobolaxa]

PS - when Bernie mentions that the teams are contracted, it's because the teams that race the third cars get extra cash, that will be given to them in FOA transportation to overseas races!

[West]

PS - when Bernie mentions that the teams are contracted, it's because the teams that race the third cars get extra cash, that will be given to them in FOA transportation to overseas races!

I thought that these teams are not willing to run a third car.

[Monstrobolaxa]

If I'm not mistaken Ferrari, Bar, Renault and Mclaren are interested in the third car....Williams on the other hand is against it!

[bernard]

....Williams on the other hand is against it!

No wonder, seeing the pathetic results of their test drivers in the last few races Go Pizzonia, I'm sure they kicked you out of Jaguar in the middle of the season without a reason, that's just the sign of a true champion.
The poor bastard thought he would dazzle all the other teams and he would have a race seat for 2005 for sure. (un) fortunately he just dug himself deeper.
A bit off topic, I know...

[Jag]

[Quote=sharkie17]and yes, Cosworth engines were dominant for a period... from late 60s to 80s i think, DFV v8.... but do you think that other engine manufacturers will sit on their butts?[/quote]

Sorry for the late reply i was a bit busy these days ... well i didn't mean that other manufacturers will sit on their butts ! but if V8 were in when Ford was in F1 nowdays , then Ford was going to be a Challenger Manufacturer as Ferrari and Renault , Mercedes and Honda also BMW ... !

[bernard]

The latest rumour is that Audi is looking into buying Jaguar. Wolkswagen owns audi, and vw boss Bernd Pischetsrieder is known to wan't to go into F1. The price Audi would pay has been estimated at 50 million euro's. Seems a little low price to pay, but if Jaguar doesn't actually own it's facilities, but is leasing them, then it sounds a little more convincing.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well I've read somewhere that Jaguar was valued at around 55 million...so in any case 50 million is already good!