why safety cars?

[lebesset]

it seems to me than one of the worst rules in F1 is the safety car ..get rid of it

this is a stupid idea adopted from the USA to bunch up the cars and start a new race...TV influence of course
clearly there is the red flag to stop the race in the event of real danger , but why not a speed limiter as used in the pits ? higher speed perhaps selected on a per circuit basis ?

in order to allow for the fact that tyres would go off temperature , after the speed limit period was over the first lap to have no overtaking ....no more senna type accidents

flashing arrows for the marshals to direct the traffic while the track is cleared

pit entry allowed at all times

of course TV companies would probably squeal

[Saribro]

Bunching up the cars gives the marshals a longer and more predictable clear period to clean up the track, making their job safer and have it go faster (less time wasted going on and off the track due to passing cars). If there were just a speedlimit, you'd still have cars pass by at random intervals, making the marshals' job harder and more dangerous.

[lebesset]

following that line of argument all cars should be stopped ; would be even safer

somebody breaks down on the public road ; all traffic stopped until vehicle is removed ? it's the same principle

absolute safety is a concept ...no more than that

[modbaraban]

following that line of argument all cars should be stopped ; would be even safer

F1 cars can't just stop and wait. They are not designed to do that. It'll take some work in the pits to prepare them for the restart. Are you willing to watch that?

[zac510]

This guy sounds like another new troll.

[Principessa]

This really is a stupid topic. As Saribro said, the marshals need to have an amount of time where no cars will pass them while they are cleaning up the debris. If you have cars passing the working marshals every 10 seconds, cleaning the track would take much longer and it would be extremely dangerous for the marshals. None of this will improve racing.

To be honest, I wouldn't like to be a marshal. Ok, you can get close to the action and if there is a crash in your corner, you can take pictures of the car as he is behind the barriers. You can stand by the F1 drivers while they wait for a ride back to the pits. But, as Fernando Alonso already declared earlier this season, marshals are heroes. They stand in the line of fire and they have a good chance of being killed by a crashing car or flying debris from a crashing car as they don't have the same protection as the public. Is it necessary than to put these peoples life in more danger by getting rid of the safety car??

I do believe that the current safety car procedure has to be smucked up, but they are working on it and testing out new systems. But if you have the idea that safety cars have to be banned, than, in my eyes, you're crazy. They are necessary to insure safety for the marshals and for the drivers!

[Kester]

Speaking as an incident marshal I cannot tell you how rediculous an idea that is. Marshals struggle enough as it is to get the track back into a standard suitable for racing after a large incident. We don't need the danger to increase futher with a constant stream of cars, albeit slower, racing by.

Working the track is a dangerous enough place as it is, don't try and make it worse for the people whose sole purpose is to make sure the race goes as planned and is a safe as possible for all the drivers and the spectators.

[nae]

when F1 wasnt a spectator sport they did just stop the cars and wait
till it was safe to race again, the tv companies didnt like there slots
being over run and complained, we now have safety cars

wishing Tv wasnt involved wont fix it

[Giblet]

I assume that you all also know that F1 cars can not sit and "idle" for very long as they overheat.

You almust be aware then that F1 cars also don't have their own starters. A bunch of broken stalled cars on the track is even less of a spectator sport.

Motor racing is inherantly dangerous, and always will be. That is why is one of the few sports that has real life and death drama. That and being a soccer ref, you crazy football fans.

[woohoo]

Pardon me, I also believe that safety cars should be, if not abolished, than at least limited.
If it is early in the race, why not stop the race, and ask for a restart...

Especially in a situation like in Japan last year, where the race was basically to dangerous to continue, so the drivers simply waited behind the safety car till the weather cleared up.

And also, F1 lived without safety cars well into 1980s, so I guess they can live without them again. I don't mind waiting if that gives me a better total experience, instead of watching 10% of the race in parade tempo

[gcdugas]

I assume that you all also know that F1 cars can not sit and "idle" for very long as they overheat.

You almust be aware then that F1 cars also don't have their own starters. A bunch of broken stalled cars on the track is even less of a spectator sport.

Motor racing is inherantly dangerous, and always will be. That is why is one of the few sports that has real life and death drama. That and being a soccer ref, you crazy football fans.

With KERS and batteries, it would not be that far off to mandate starters. And I have always wanted the cars to have some sort of radiator fans as part of the rules ever since those two Fords ignited on the Australian grid in 1998 or 1999. Fisi's Jordan ignited at Parc Ferme in Brazil 2003. The cars at the front of the grid sit idle for much longer than P19 and P20 also. The weight penalty of such would be equal for all teams.

I posted this under the "Ban Refueling" thread but it applies here too.

I essentially advocate for the race distance tire of 2005. Less marbles off line too. I think banning tire changes and refueling at the same stop would be best. If you must stop due to a flat spotted tire or a puncture, then you can't refuel. That is it. Each team should also submit their first pit stop window of two laps where they would not get penalized if the safety car comes out. After their first stop they have to submit a two lap window for their second pit stop etc. This could also be used to prevent a car from running out of gas if they had a puncture just as the tanks got low. They could only change the affected tire. Flat spotted tires could not be changed at a scheduled fuel stop no matter what. This would effectively give drivers the penalty of an extra stop if they destroy their tires.

They should employ my "pit stop window" submission idea ASAP to exempt those who need fuel during safety car periods. Those whose announced stops occur during the safety car should be the ONLY ones to pit during the safety car period. The pits shouldn't be opened to all.

[Scotracer]

I assume that you all also know that F1 cars can not sit and "idle" for very long as they overheat.

You almust be aware then that F1 cars also don't have their own starters. A bunch of broken stalled cars on the track is even less of a spectator sport.

Motor racing is inherantly dangerous, and always will be. That is why is one of the few sports that has real life and death drama. That and being a soccer ref, you crazy football fans.

With KERS and batteries, it would not be that far off to mandate starters. And I have always wanted the cars to have some sort of radiator fans as part of the rules ever since those two Fords ignited on the Australian grid in 1998 or 1999. Fisi's Jordan ignited at Parc Ferme in Brazil 2003. The cars at the front of the grid sit idle for much longer than P19 and P20 also. The weight penalty of such would be equal for all teams.

I posted this under the "Ban Refueling" thread but it applies here too.

I essentially advocate for the race distance tire of 2005. Less marbles off line too. I think banning tire changes and refueling at the same stop would be best. If you must stop due to a flat spotted tire or a puncture, then you can't refuel. That is it. Each team should also submit their first pit stop window of two laps where they would not get penalized if the safety car comes out. After their first stop they have to submit a two lap window for their second pit stop etc. This could also be used to prevent a car from running out of gas if they had a puncture just as the tanks got low. They could only change the affected tire. Flat spotted tires could not be changed at a scheduled fuel stop no matter what. This would effectively give drivers the penalty of an extra stop if they destroy their tires.

They should employ my "pit stop window" submission idea ASAP to exempt those who need fuel during safety car periods. Those whose announced stops occur during the safety car should be the ONLY ones to pit during the safety car period. The pits shouldn't be opened to all.

Trouble is, you would need to really invest in some serious fan systems to work at the speeds that F1 cars run at. A normal fan would just ask like a rotating parachute. Also, screw starter motors -- they weigh a tonne!

As for the 2005 tyres: I hated them. So poor compared to the current tyres. Also, with going slicks the rubber will be even softer so to make a tyre durable enough to last a race distance, with the levels of downforce they will have next year, would be akin to driving on ice -- very dangerous. I do not advocate it.

[Giblet]

Safety car or not, cars exploding into flames was more of an issue with the design then the rules.

The car the won the championship those years was likely designed to better suit the rules and not burst into flames because of heat that should have been accounted for during the inception of the car.

[vyselegend]

Each team should also submit their first pit stop window of two laps where they would not get penalized if the safety car comes out. After their first stop they have to submit a two lap window for their second pit stop etc. This could also be used to prevent a car from running out of gas if they had a puncture just as the tanks got low. They could only change the affected tire. Flat spotted tires could not be changed at a scheduled fuel stop no matter what. This would effectively give drivers the penalty of an extra stop if they destroy their tires.

They should employ my "pit stop window" submission idea ASAP to exempt those who need fuel during safety car periods. Those whose announced stops occur during the safety car should be the ONLY ones to pit during the safety car period. The pits shouldn't be opened to all.

+1!

It is a very good basis for improved SC rules IMO.

Trying to totally get rid of the safety car is utopic. Also, we should not whine that much about safety car management in current F1 and other european motorsport, as it not that bad. Try to follow an ALMS race and you'll see it could be much much worse! As a wild guess I'd say last week end's round at Road America resulted in 1/3 of the race at least under full course neutralisation, with absolutely no need for it, as most of times it was about a single car stuck in the depth of a secured sand trap, cases where a single yellow would do a perfect job normally. And this was no exception, as those arbitrary full course neutralisations are very common sight in US racing.

Even more agrivating is the way the neutralisation tends to be prolongated although the stuck car has been removed, track cleared and marshalls are in security, but you will have to cope with a few more laps under SC for the fu**ing fun of it!

It has been mentionned that this SC management has everything to do with TV demands, and I see no other reasons for it. It just allows speed TV to go adds for huge periods, while motors TV powerlessly dislays an artificial slow procession...

As I already told you numerous times in this forum, in France we have to watch F1 from the TF1 channel, and those guys are actually showing a festival of advertisement, sometimes cut by little samples of formula one (a few lap just for you to have an idea of what you would see if you were granted the right to see the race...)
Obviously those damned morrons are very keen to have as much SC periods as possible, as it gives 'em better contiousness than when they just goes "WOW what an extraordinary battle! we take a break now." and then while the come back "Wow that was a terrible fight, we hope you'll get the replay from the realisation"...

But I disgress, the way TV treats us and our sport is another topic, which I could fill with pages of hatred. Truth is just that the SC problem lies here, period.

[pgj]

I am not in favour of SC procedures. Of course marshals need to be able to work in safe conditions, but the present procedure is too artificial.

Last year it was commonplace to see cars sitting for three or four minutes at the pitlane exit between Q2 and Q3. Clearly, the technology exists to allow cars to sit stationary. My proposal would be for all cars to hit the pitalne limiter and form up on the grid in race order. Lapped cars could be allowed to unlap themselves, with marshals being warned when they were being released. A restart could be from grid position or from a rolling start.