Ferrari Engine Failures

[gcdugas]

Could they be at the limit of the amount of oil they fill up with in an attempt to reduce "crank windage"? Less oil even in a dry sump engine does reduce losses but at considerable risk. Has anyone heard anything along these lines?

[axle]

Couldn't it be simply a bad batch of conrods?

[gcdugas]

Couldn't it be simply a bad batch of conrods?

It could be a bad batch of anything but the point is that with the freeze and ECU rule teams are tempted to seek performance gains in risky ways. I was asking if anyone has heard any rumblings about oil levels.

[woohoo]

Well, in any cane if this continues, Ferrari's will be powered by Torro Rosso

[donskar]

FWIW, Speed TV said Ferrari explained Massa's blown engine as bad batch of crankshafts . . .

Let's not be naive. FIA rules are vague in many instances. With ten of millions of $ at stake, would you NOT try to take advantage of a loophole?

It's pretty clear that engine mods are allowed for safety and reliability. Ferrari and Mercedes have definitely taken advantage of this; it would be surprising if other manufacturers had NOT.

[gcdugas]

FWIW, Speed TV said Ferrari explained Massa's blown engine as bad batch of crankshafts . . .

Let's not be naive. FIA rules are vague in many instances. With ten of millions of $ at stake, would you NOT try to take advantage of a loophole?

It's pretty clear that engine mods are allowed for safety and reliability. Ferrari and Mercedes have definitely taken advantage of this; it would be surprising if other manufacturers had NOT.

I believe that the process for a manufacturer to apply for an engine component design change "for reliability" involves not only the FIA approving the change but also their fellow competitors approving the change. This article makes it clear that all the other teams know what modifications their peers are applying for and why. The other teams can also say no to the request.

[axle]

Speaking of engines...have the FIA checked any more engines? They check Hamiltons after a win - are they now checking Massa's?

[PNSD]

i beleive they are random searches.

so any driver any team any time. well i think!

[axle]

i beleive they are random searches.

so any driver any team any time. well i think!

Indeed - but it would be in the best interests of the sport to test the leading two manufacturers first...and as they only have a few races left then it would be prudent to crack on with the tests before the season's out! At the moment, Mercedes, have been singled out...

[donskar]

Thanks gcdugas. For those too busy , here's the pertinent part of the article (from autosport.com; emphasis added by me):

"Ferrari technical director Aldo Costa said about Renault's claims: 'You have to listen to their opinion, but you also have to listen to the opinion of all the other competitors.

'Rules are frozen on the engine but you are allowed to change components for reliability reasons and also, if you demonstrate that you are implementing a more economic, a cheaper component, you can also ask permission.

'The information gets circulated and all the teams have to express an opinion. So if they want to say no, they say no. And having listened to all the competitors, the FIA can decide not to allow these modifications. So I think it's a very good process. There are very clear limitations and very clear possibilities.'"

So, Renault and Toyota (who recruited their engine man, Marmorini, from Ferrari) can whine about letter and spirit, but they know that other manufacturers are going all out to win. And that's what it's all about.

[gcdugas]

From this article we can see that gains are being sought by lowering the oil level in the engine. In particular Mercedes and Ferrari are noted as toying with oil levels. I think Ferrari has just pushed the envelop too far lately. That is what started this thread and now we have confirmation that my thesis is true.

[pgj]

Thanks gcdugas. For those too busy , here's the pertinent part of the article (from autosport.com; emphasis added by me):

"Ferrari technical director Aldo Costa said about Renault's claims: 'You have to listen to their opinion, but you also have to listen to the opinion of all the other competitors.

'Rules are frozen on the engine but you are allowed to change components for reliability reasons and also, if you demonstrate that you are implementing a more economic, a cheaper component, you can also ask permission.

'The information gets circulated and all the teams have to express an opinion. So if they want to say no, they say no. And having listened to all the competitors, the FIA can decide not to allow these modifications. So I think it's a very good process. There are very clear limitations and very clear possibilities.'"

So, Renault and Toyota (who recruited their engine man, Marmorini, from Ferrari) can whine about letter and spirit, but they know that other manufacturers are going all out to win. And that's what it's all about.

It is a way of getting manufacturers to share basic development information with each other.

I thought that F1 engines all ran with a dry sump these days?

[gcdugas]

It is a way of getting manufacturers to share basic development information with each other.

I thought that F1 engines all ran with a dry sump these days?

The article in my earlier post said in the second to last paragraph that they were dry sump but still less oil equals less windage losses.

[bazanaius]

pgj - a 'dry sump' isn't actually dry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump

sorry if you already knew this

[Pup]

i beleive they are random searches.

so any driver any team any time. well i think!

Indeed - but it would be in the best interests of the sport to test the leading two manufacturers first...and as they only have a few races left then it would be prudent to crack on with the tests before the season's out! At the moment, Mercedes, have been singled out...

No engines were pulled after Valencia either, according to the TD report. As I posted elsewhere, I believe the randomness of their inspections is based on a simple coin toss - heads, check the McLaren; tails, don't.