Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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F1Krof
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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This Mercedes W10 has two faces. You will not make it out of him. Sebastian Vettel put it this way: "It is difficult to read what exactly happens there. Some runs look good, others less good. "So do the engineers:" There are times when we're as fast as Red Bull, and then we're slow again. "

So slow that Mercedes has even drifted to midfield, according to the projections of some teams. More than a second behind Ferrari the simulations of the opponents speak in the worst case. In the good stages of the silver arrow, however, only one to two tenths missing on Ferrari.

But when is this Mercedes Dr. Jekyll and when Mr. Hyde? The engineers themselves can not really answer that yet. "It depends on the temperature, the tires and the circumstances." One thing is certain: the retreaded car is a significant step forward compared to the version of the W10 that was on the road during the first week of testing.

The base model really only played in midfield. The biggest problem was initially instability in the rear, which was probably aerodynamic. "We have the problem clearly under control," said the technicians with relief.

Mercedes does not understand his car yet

The big difference between Ferrari and Mercedes is that Ferrari has understood his car from the first day of testing. Mercedes is still in the middle of the learning process. "Because our aero package was so extensive and so massive new."

The biggest puzzle is again the new Pirelli tires. The graining of the rubbers is quite heavy on the Mercedes, and also at times of the day, when the so-called "Graining" actually should not be a problem. "We also experienced it in the warm afternoon hours."

Other teams have problems with the tread shedding, but mostly limited to the cool morning hours. Graining can also be a result of too much slipping on the asphalt. But exclude the Mercedes technicians: "We certainly do not have too little downforce."

Whenever the Mercedes falls into this "graining" hole, it is slow. Of course, this is difficult to see for the spies of the competition. The softer the tires, the greater the problem with graining.

On the second hardest C2 mixture, the Mercedes looks best compared to the competition. The time of day also matters when the Silver Arrow is in shape and when not. "10 o'clock is our best time for a quick lap. For longruns from 12 to 14 o'clock. Unfortunately, one hour's lunch break. "

Pirelli is offering new rubber compounds this year, also in response to the thinner tread. "The tires behave very differently than last year," complain many engineers. And that makes it so hard to read the lap times. Also the long runs.

"There is more scope in the variables," complains Renault team boss Cyril Abiteboul. "With the larger tank capacity, you can charge up to 20 kilograms in the analyzes. The DRS effect has become much bigger. The differences in the engine programs too. And there's the tire factor, which is hard to read. "

Red Bull with the fastest longrun

In the first six days of the test there were hardly any usable racing simulations. Only those allow a reasonably reliable analysis, because one can assume a takeoff weight of at least 100 kilograms. But even then, the quality of longruns can fluctuate greatly, experts tell us. Blame it again for the tires.

"We see extreme fluctuations, even with the same car. Everything depends on the first two rounds. There are four categories: first lap fast and then continue driving continuously. First lap fast, then a cool down lap. First lap fast, short in the box, adjust front wing and continue. Moderately start and increase. "

The Mercedes analysts draw an interim balance: "Red Bull has shown on Wednesday the fastest ever Longrun." Max Verstappen broke the racing simulation, however, due to a slip-up and a gearbox problem after 40 laps. And Mercedes? "We had good and less good Longruns, depending on the time of day." Renault and Sauber also cut off well after the calculations of Mercedes in the race trim.

Anyway, the midfield seems to have moved much closer to the top. That looked quite different in the first week. And that's why the impression can arise that Mercedes is part of the midfield when the car presents itself from its weaker side. Lewis Hamilton did that on his Wednesday long run with the C3 tires. With four to five laps constant in the 1.20s, the lap times rose rapidly to a level of 1.23 minutes where they stabilized again.
from AMUS

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -graining/
Wroom wroom

LM10
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Shakeman wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 20:43
zibby43 wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 20:04
This is interesting.

https://twitter.com/wbuxtonofficial/sta ... 5049022465
I wrote this earlier in the week,
If you have near unlimited resources how would you make sure your car was optimised for high downforce and high speed circuits giving you the best possible chance on all circuits? Build two!

It may not be High Downforce vs High Speed it may be due to working the tyres differently from track to track such as race track vs street circuit.

Two cars would be the logical next step to improve those tracks where Merc have been historically poor while not compromising their performance on tracks they're historically good at.

Last week's car look too developed to be a test mule.
Of course the idea was roundly pooh-poohed so it's nice to see someone in a team is thinking the same way.
It doesn't really make sense though, does it? There still are corners on high speed circuits and you still want to have as much downforce as possible in the corners. If both concepts were significantly different (like differences in wheelbase or rake), we could tell that it might make sense, but looking at last week's and this week's W10, it pretty much looks like a development instead of a different concept. I couldn't tell on which tracks last week's car would be faster than this week's car. But let's see.

McDrake
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Morteza wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 10:34
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0eqU4UXcAEwnXn.jpg
Via @AlbertFabrega
gees that's one too many flaps!! :shock:

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Shakeman
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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LM10 wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 20:56

It doesn't really make sense though, does it? There still are corners on high speed circuits and you still want to have as much downforce as possible in the corners. If both concepts were significantly different (like differences in wheelbase or rake), we could tell that it might make sense, but looking at last week's and this week's W10, it pretty much looks like a development instead of a different concept. I couldn't tell on which tracks last week's car would be faster than this week's car. But let's see.
It depends what the reasons are for Merc's relative lack of pace at certain circuits. Could that be dialled out with a setup change that worked better with a different aero kit?

If this week's car is for the Aus GP then it's probably the 'high downforce' car and the previous week's car is the Spa/Monza car.

It may be a complete load of BS but you never know, if you had the resources and the need to win as much as these teams do, what would you do?

zioture
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Image

Jozsusz
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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -graining/

So Merc managed to create another "Diva"... great.

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Or they're just putting more load through cold tyres than other teams. Which wouldn't be an issue at an actual race because the temperatures will be a lot higher.

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Interesting, they aren't running the spacer with all the holes in it.
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djones
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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dans79 wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 22:14
Interesting, they aren't running the spacer with all the holes in it.
Could it be to get the tyre temps up in these relatively cold conditions?

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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djones wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 23:04
dans79 wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 22:14
Interesting, they aren't running the spacer with all the holes in it.
Could it be to get the tyre temps up in these relatively cold conditions?
possibly, but you would think if they needed more heat, they would have run the rims that don't have holes in them.

It could be just like last year, that Merc has a harder time getting and keeping the tires in the proper operating window.

I've often wondered if the reason they have a hard time switching them on is because Merc is the only team running a low rake stiff suspension set up. In other words Pirelli is developing tires to please all the other teams (90%) who are more or less running a higher rake softer suspension set up.
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humble sabot
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Don't forget we're in a post tyre blanket era
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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humble sabot wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 02:03
Don't forget we're in a post tyre blanket era
What?

I thought they only dropped the max allowable temperatures for this year. I thought the full ban didn't come into play until 2021!
Last edited by dans79 on 01 Mar 2019, 04:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Sieper
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Yes, Blankets still allowed, Max allowed temp down from 100 to 80 degrees Celsius. So below optimal temperature. Making pitting more time costly I would say, extra heat up time so extra caution needed for a longer time.

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humble sabot
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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must have missed a memo. I thought this year was that, and 2021 was the 18inchers
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Sieper wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 02:12
Yes, Blankets still allowed, Max allowed temp down from 100 to 80 degrees Celsius. So below optimal temperature. Making pitting more time costly I would say, extra heat up time so extra caution needed for a longer time.
I have wondered if this is why several times during testing Merc has run a stint where the first lap of a stint was 0.5 to like 1.5 seconds faster than the subsequent laps. James Allen has mentioned several times over the winter that a goal was to make the car gentler on its tires.

If they can tune the suspension in a way that allows them to bring the tires up to temp in the first lap or two (if you include the out lap), without seriously damming them, that might pay dividends if others have to baby them more. Being gentler on the tires overall might be more beneficial this year than in years past.

Imo, the last stint of Leclerc's race sim today showed the tires might be very finicky. He put in two really quick laps at the beginning of the stint, and then over the next 6 laps he had roughly 1.5 seconds of degradation before the times leveled out.
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