General Honda F1 Topic

[Morteza]

https://twitter.com/autosport/status/11 ... 1281000448

[HPD]

The secret meeting in Mcdonalds

"It was close to the track and we thought we would not be recognized there," says Red Bull consultant Helmut Marko. "We dressed neutral, it was still a critical period when nobody should know that we are having serious discussions."

But in this "critical phase", the site of the negotiations raised unimaginable problems: "We had problems opening these cups at McDonalds," says Marko. "Luckily, a secretary helped us out."

[Godius]

[Jambier]

Funny enough I think RB this year will be prolific with praise of Honda lol. Just to spite Renault. May not stay that way, but I think for this year they will go out of their way to say good things about Honda.

And I think this is an issue for Honda.
Red Bull is doing very stupid communication since this winter.

Hence it put useless pressure on Honda, and bad communication.

Honda have made a lot of progress in 2018. And they seem to be on the same way for 2019.
But they will probably still be the last engine on the grid, even if all engines are now closer.

So it will be better to say that they are almost there, and that 2020 will be the true test for Honda

[nzjrs]

Red Bull is doing very stupid communication since this winter.

Can you give an example. I think they have been quite balanced - not over promising, not too much pressure, complimentary, and off-the-cuff remarks by drivers have been positive too.

Perhaps a native Japanese (and/or speaker) can give their opinion on how the media in Japan has been reporting the comments, and how they are perceived there.

[dren]

Testing shows Honda is in a good position. The statements from STR and RBR have been promising. I think they'll do just fine this season.

[Wouter]

And I think this is an issue for Honda.
Red Bull is doing very stupid communication since this winter.

Honda have made a lot of progress in 2018.
But they will probably still be the last engine on the grid

Honda the last engine on the grid?! They will surprise you!

And "Red Bull is doing very stupid communication since this winter."

What about Abiteboul? "We made a progress of 20-50 HP." .

Max Verstappen: "I also think we have a good total package, but we only really see where we are this weekend and whether we have closed the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari."

[JordanMugen]

A little history.
Jos Verstappen and the RA099

More: https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/02/09 ... is-unkind/

The Postelwaithe penned, Mugen-Honda powered, RA099 was built by Dallara

Sorry to bother, I note that the article mentions that RA099 prototype was Mugen-Honda powered, as opposed to Honda powered.

How much similarity or relationship was there between the 1999 & 2000 Mugen V10s, and the 2000 Honda V10? Was there an exchange of data or engineers between these two projects?

Were the Mugen-Honda engines funded by Honda to some extent? I assume that they were given the partial Honda branding on the engine cover, and a higher level of competitiveness than you would expect for a pure privateer engine (if development was only funded by what the Jordan team paid for the engine).

[Jambier]

And I think this is an issue for Honda.
Red Bull is doing very stupid communication since this winter.

Honda have made a lot of progress in 2018.
But they will probably still be the last engine on the grid

Honda the last engine on the grid?! They will surprise you!

And "Red Bull is doing very stupid communication since this winter."

What about Abiteboul? "We made a progress of 20-50 HP." .

Max Verstappen: "I also think we have a good total package, but we only really see where we are this weekend and whether we have closed the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari."

Stupid always speaking about Renault. It is the past, they should get over it.
And promising enormous things for Honda.

Let Honda work quietly, they don't need to have another partner like was McLaren and Dennis

There is a lot similarities between RB and McLaren "We have the best chassis but worst engine", and puting pressure on Honda

Regarding Renault we all know that Abiteboul is very bad in communication -like Marko- but like Honda, progress seems to be good this winter on engine side.

I think in best case scénario, RB will be in 2019 at the same level than if they have kept the Renault

[Wouter]

I think in best case scénario, RB will be in 2019 at the same level than if they have kept the Renault

In the best case scénario?
Did you miss that the Honda engine was already faster than the Renault engine at the end of last season?
They have now made a lot of progress again. Not only with the ICE but also with the electrical part.
How can RB in the best case scénario be at the same level than with a Renault engine. That is very illogical imo.

Anyway, we are going to see how great the Renault engine has become during the winter, for the very first time.

[PhillipM]

Well, they were winning races with the Renault engine last year, so, yes, you want them to be at that level with the Honda...

[Capharol]

Well, they were winning races with the Renault engine last year, so, yes, you want them to be at that level with the Honda...

that was more due to circumstances and trackconditions as they did it on there own merit, only Austria jumps out.

what I am trying to say with the Renault engine they will never win Italian GP or Belgium GP on Merit....now i am not sure if Honda is capable of this (guess not) but they should at least win Monaco and a few others that suits the car/engine

[HPD]

How much similarity or relationship was there between the 1999 & 2000 Mugen V10s, and the 2000 Honda V10? Was there an exchange of data or engineers between these two projects?

Were the Mugen-Honda engines funded by Honda to some extent? I assume that they were given the partial Honda branding on the engine cover, and a higher level of competitiveness than you would expect for a pure privateer engine (if development was only funded by what the Jordan team paid for the engine).

I understand that there was a technical collaboration. Although we do not know if it was too much.
Mugen started F1 using Honda engines as a base to develop.
But "theoretically" in 2000, Honda and Mugen had different engines.

Mugen Honda:
V10 MF 301 HE
770 HP
15800 rpm

Honda:
RA000E V10
810HP
17000 rpm

Here you can see all the engines of Mugen - Honda. And other data.
https://www.statsf1.com/es/moteur-mugen-honda.aspx
https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion ... mensiones/

And to finish

[PhillipM]

Well, they were winning races with the Renault engine last year, so, yes, you want them to be at that level with the Honda...

that was more due to circumstances and trackconditions as they did it on there own merit, only Austria jumps out.

A little disenginous there, Renault made some great progress on their ERS side last year and it showed at places like Mexico, Brazil and Austria at high altitudes. It certainly wasn't just down to the car, as even Renaults own cars were faster than expected.

So yes, given that toward the end of last year they were winning races, if Honda have kept up the development pace the same as everyone else over winter, you'd want them to be in with a shout of doing the same this season if you're going to outright say the Honda is better than the Renault.

Personally I'm expecting a few teething troubles. Newey has never been kind to power units with packaging.

[Jambier]

I think in best case scénario, RB will be in 2019 at the same level than if they have kept the Renault

In the best case scénario?
Did you miss that the Honda engine was already faster than the Renault engine at the end of last season?
They have now made a lot of progress again. Not only with the ICE but also with the electrical part.
How can RB in the best case scénario be at the same level than with a Renault engine. That is very illogical imo.

Anyway, we are going to see how great the Renault engine has become during the winter, for the very first time.

According to... Marko
You can't take seriously RedBull communication.

Honda will have to use 3 engines per year, be reliable, and be fast.
They have a lot of work to do, and I'm pleased to see their progress.

But Renault and all the other progress as well.
So having an engine as reliable and powerful as the Renault would be a great win for Honda indeed.

You can't expect them to have in 2019 an engine with both same reliability, power and fuel economy than Ferrari or Mercedes.
2020 is a more realistic target