2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[M840TR]

So 'Hats Off' to McLaren... Today they proved they did understand the problem with the Mcl33 and they have got a team capable of being in the midfield mix

still, 0.5 to Hass(ari )
1 sec to Red Bull
1.1 sec to Ferrari &
1.8 sec's off of Lewis, so an awful long way to go yet

And so many questions... We have absolutely no idea how competitive teams will be in race trim,I'm not sure how much the unique characteristics of Melbourne masked their performance today or has it flattered them and will the likes of Renault,RP & Alfa hold an advarntage in Bahrain & China? Of course we will only start to see the true picture emerge over the coming weeks

How much do people feel the gap to the front is down to engine power and how much is down to McLaren's Chassis? Does the law of diminishing returns mean the two entities between them have a chance to claw some performance back this year? or will the front runners be able to out develop them?

I would still put the Pu's in the following order still:-

Mercedes
-0.1 to -0.3 Ferrari,
-0.5 to -0.6 Mclaren (renault PU)
-0.1 to -0.2 Honda

and maybe the chassis like this

Mercedes
-0.1 Redbull
-0.5 to -0.6 Ferrari
-0.5 to -0.6 Mclaren
-0.0 to -0.1 Hass

The above makes many assumptions and is nothing more than a guess, but perhaps someone good with Math could try to calculate a more accurate analysis?

I think it will be hard for Sainz tomorrow cuz the cars ahead are only a few tenths slower than Mcl34 and track advantage is key is Melbourne. That is unless something crazy happens, which has a high probability given the wider front wings. Norris just has to keep out of trouble tomorrow and follow a good strategy. The pace of the Renaults is still a bit of an enigma though, so they might still be a threat. The PU has historically been better in race trim so maybe advantage Mclaren there.

[the EDGE]

I think many people are dreaming about engine difference.

Chassis now makes the difference.
Between best and worst engine I'm sure there is no more than 3 tenth

I did mean to say in quali trim

I agree in race spec, the PU's do seem closer, but there is no denying in quali trim Merc & Ferrari seem to be able to turn the power up a lot, purely based on the fact that hold a much bigger advantage in quali than they do ob the race

[SmallSoldier]

So 'Hats Off' to McLaren... Today they proved they did understand the problem with the Mcl33 and they have got a team capable of being in the midfield mix

still, 0.5 to Hass(ari )
1 sec to Red Bull
1.1 sec to Ferrari &
1.8 sec's off of Lewis, so an awful long way to go yet

And so many questions... We have absolutely no idea how competitive teams will be in race trim,I'm not sure how much the unique characteristics of Melbourne masked their performance today or has it flattered them and will the likes of Renault,RP & Alfa hold an advarntage in Bahrain & China? Of course we will only start to see the true picture emerge over the coming weeks

How much do people feel the gap to the front is down to engine power and how much is down to McLaren's Chassis? Does the law of diminishing returns mean the two entities between them have a chance to claw some performance back this year? or will the front runners be able to out develop them?

I would still put the Pu's in the following order still:-

Mercedes
-0.1 to -0.3 Ferrari,
-0.5 to -0.6 Mclaren (renault PU)
-0.1 to -0.2 Honda

and maybe the chassis like this

Mercedes
-0.1 Redbull
-0.5 to -0.6 Ferrari
-0.5 to -0.6 Mclaren
-0.0 to -0.1 Hass

The above makes many assumptions and is nothing more than a guess, but perhaps someone good with Math could try to calculate a more accurate analysis?

In regards to their ability to close the gap to the front, I believe they will... How close they will get is impossible to determine, but the reality of the situation is that they have close the gap this year by 0.7 seconds compared to last year (just based on Melbourne’s qualifying times)... While the top teams improved 0.6 seconds compared to previous year, Mclaren’s lap was a whooping 1.3 seconds faster than last year qualifying, which shows that they have made more progress than the ones at the front during winter... How much of that is due to the PU and how much due to the chassis is a big unknown at this point in time.

Furthermore, based on what has been said on the interviews so far, the team is still fighting balance issues, which if fixed should allow them to close the gap even further (it’s apparent than the top 3 don’t have as big of a an issue to fix).

Finally, based on the speed traps... It would seem that all engines are finally converging... Of course, speed traps are also highly influenced by the aero / drag on the car (as proven by Mclaren last year when they had on of the draggiest cars on the grid)... But if we look at the average top speed from all the manufacturers, they all seem to be in a similar ball park, which would suggest that the gaps within the engines has close.


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[SmallSoldier]

So 'Hats Off' to McLaren... Today they proved they did understand the problem with the Mcl33 and they have got a team capable of being in the midfield mix

still, 0.5 to Hass(ari )
1 sec to Red Bull
1.1 sec to Ferrari &
1.8 sec's off of Lewis, so an awful long way to go yet

And so many questions... We have absolutely no idea how competitive teams will be in race trim,I'm not sure how much the unique characteristics of Melbourne masked their performance today or has it flattered them and will the likes of Renault,RP & Alfa hold an advarntage in Bahrain & China? Of course we will only start to see the true picture emerge over the coming weeks

How much do people feel the gap to the front is down to engine power and how much is down to McLaren's Chassis? Does the law of diminishing returns mean the two entities between them have a chance to claw some performance back this year? or will the front runners be able to out develop them?

I would still put the Pu's in the following order still:-

Mercedes
-0.1 to -0.3 Ferrari,
-0.5 to -0.6 Mclaren (renault PU)
-0.1 to -0.2 Honda

and maybe the chassis like this

Mercedes
-0.1 Redbull
-0.5 to -0.6 Ferrari
-0.5 to -0.6 Mclaren
-0.0 to -0.1 Hass

The above makes many assumptions and is nothing more than a guess, but perhaps someone good with Math could try to calculate a more accurate analysis?

I think it will be hard for Sainz tomorrow cuz the cars ahead are only a few tenths slower than Mcl34 and track advantage is key is Melbourne. That is unless something crazy happens, which has a high probability given the wider front wings. Norris just has to keep out of trouble tomorrow and follow a good strategy. The pace of the Renaults is still a bit of an enigma though, so they might still be a threat. The PU has historically been better in race trim so maybe advantage Mclaren there.

The one factor that I’m looking forward on tomorrow’s race is the effect of the new “bigger” rear wings... Which I consider that will have a larger effect on passing than the front wings.

The larger / taller rear wings generate more drag intrinsically, which should increase the effect of the slip stream from the cars (independent of DRS)... In addition, the DRS is now more powerful since the slot is larger, therefore it should compound the effect... Said in other words, the car in front is at a higher disadvantage than in previous years and the DRS will have a larger effect... Is that enough to create more passing opportunities in Melbourne? We will find out in a few hours... My guess is that even when we may not see a big change in respect to last year, there will be signs that the changes made are positive and we will see more passing (hopefully it won’t make it way too easier, which would also be a problem... Although, that can be solved by shortening DRS zones in future races if that’s the case).


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[Ground Effect]

I've been trying to convince myself all day that Carlos would have qualified higher than Lando, and in essence ending up making the gap to the teams ahead slightly smaller. This is by no means a dig at Lando, he's exceeded my expectations, to put it mildly. He seemed a long way behind through out the FP sessions, but came alive when it mattered the most. But if Carlos had made it through, all the way to Q3, maybe he would have qualified higher? So 0.5secs that we have to Haas could come down to, say 0.3secs?
Obviously, there's absolutely no guarantee my speculation is right, but it's a valid talking point, I think.

[SmallSoldier]

I've been trying to convince myself all day that Carlos would have qualified higher than Lando, and in essence ending up making the gap to the teams ahead slightly smaller. This is by no means a dig at Lando, he's exceeded my expectations, to put it mildly. He seemed a long way behind through out the FP sessions, but came alive when it mattered the most. But if Carlos had made it through, all the way to Q3, maybe he would have qualified higher? So 0.5secs that we have to Haas could come down to, say 0.3secs?
Obviously, there's absolutely no guarantee my speculation is right, but it's a valid talking point, I think.

It’s a valid point, but way too hard to prove / disprove... We have to consider that Lando was building up all through the weekend, on FP1 his car was setup for understeer (which is easier / safer to run than oversteer) in order for him to familiarize himself with the track (first time running in Melbourne) and to also avoid a costly mistake (in terms of running laps, as well as parts)... Which makes the deficit in lap times of the practice sessions a little more understandable and predictable to an extent (no simulator will allow you to fully understand the impact of the different bumps at the track, the initial lack of grip while the track was rubbering in, as well as the G-Forces that you experience).

You also have to consider that achieving an ideal setup for Norris was going to take a bit more time than for Sainz, since Carlos probably knows exactly what he wants from the car and how to get there.

Once qualifying started and is all or nothing, Lando had a chance to really push regardless of the outcome and his lap times show exactly that... Now, does that mean that Carlos couldn’t have been faster than him? Nope... What is clear is that they could have been in within a tenth of each other which would have put them both at least in Q3, that would be a reasonable expectation.


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[the EDGE]

I've been trying to convince myself all day that Carlos would have qualified higher than Lando, and in essence ending up making the gap to the teams ahead slightly smaller. This is by no means a dig at Lando, he's exceeded my expectations, to put it mildly. He seemed a long way behind through out the FP sessions, but came alive when it mattered the most. But if Carlos had made it through, all the way to Q3, maybe he would have qualified higher? So 0.5secs that we have to Haas could come down to, say 0.3secs?
Obviously, there's absolutely no guarantee my speculation is right, but it's a valid talking point, I think.

I think driver performance talk is always valid, you would like hope that someone of Carlos’s talent & experience would be able to deliver a tenth or two over a 19 year old in his first ever qualifying wouldn’t you. Interestingly, Fernando beat Lewis by 0.2 secs in their first ever Qualifying

But who knows??? As someone said earlier, if Lando had made a mistake and not put the last lap together in Q2, this thread would be reading a whole lot differently right now with the drivers in something like 15th & 18th

For all we know right now Lando could be the next Lewis or Max and wipe the floor with Carlos the whole season. I very much doubt it, but without more data we just don’t know, I mean... McLaren put him in the car for a reason

[SmallSoldier]

I've been trying to convince myself all day that Carlos would have qualified higher than Lando, and in essence ending up making the gap to the teams ahead slightly smaller. This is by no means a dig at Lando, he's exceeded my expectations, to put it mildly. He seemed a long way behind through out the FP sessions, but came alive when it mattered the most. But if Carlos had made it through, all the way to Q3, maybe he would have qualified higher? So 0.5secs that we have to Haas could come down to, say 0.3secs?
Obviously, there's absolutely no guarantee my speculation is right, but it's a valid talking point, I think.

I think driver performance talk is always valid, you would like hope that someone of Carlos’s talent & experience would be able to deliver a tenth or two over a 19 year old in his first ever qualifying wouldn’t you. Interestingly, Fernando beat Lewis by 0.2 secs in their first ever Qualifying

But who knows??? As someone said earlier, if Lando had made a mistake and not put the last lap together in Q2, this thread would be reading a whole lot differently right now with the drivers in something like 15th & 18th

For all we know right now Lando could be the next Lewis or Max and wipe the floor with Carlos the whole season. I very much doubt it, but without more data we just don’t know, I mean... McLaren put him in the car for a reason

I don’t think Lando will wipe the floor with Carlos, but wouldn’t be surprise if they trade blows all through the season, with a pretty even distribution of who wins more qualifying sessions between the 2 of them.

The beauty of this seasons seems to be in the midfield and how close they are to each other... When the difference between teams is a couple of tenths, then one can afford to make a mistake and still keep their position... With it been as close as it is and with less than a tenth separating a big number of teams, small factors will play into hand... Not only not making mistakes (from a driver perspective), but things like track position, tire temperature, out-lap pace and adjustments in within sessions will be have a major role in deciding who is out in Q1 and who makes it to Q3... Based on Melbourne alone (which isn’t representative), only Haas seems to be safely in Q3


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[FittingMechanics]

For one, Sainz didn't feel the need for 3 runs on new soft tires in Q1, something that Norris did. Obviously Norris and his engineer thought that Norris needs the extra run to have a decent shot at Q2. It's only logical to err on the side of caution for a rookie in a midfield team car. I also believe Sainz would have done a better lap than Norris, perhaps not by much but should have reached Q3. Just the fact that Norris was improving in each lap, it shows that he was still learning the track and the limits of the car. Most of the other guys did not improve a lot between Q1 and Q2 or Q2 and Q3 (except big three teams where people could do laps on used tires).

Someone was talking how they watched Norris and were disappointed with his first run in Q2 and Q3. He did those two runs on used tires as he spent 3 sets of new tires in Q1. That is why his first run in both Q2 and Q3 were slow, and only in his second run he improved. This just shows how well he did, he nailed both those laps on new tires, with no mistake. Good job Norris.

[Darth-Piekus]

Fingers crossed I hope for a safe start tomorrow and pick up as many points as possible. Target is to finish up in front of the Hass.

[Macklaren]

Agreed. I think if Norris beats both Haas and Sainz can break into the top 10, that will feel like a win. Bonus points if the top 5 trip up to elevate us further

[SmallSoldier]

Fingers crossed I hope for a safe start tomorrow and pick up as many points as possible. Target is to finish up in front of the Hass.

Disagree... I believe the target should be to remain 8th... Beating the Haas is something that we want the team to do, but not realistic based on both team’s pace... Issues at the front or a killer strategy may place the team in front of one of them, but I don’t know if the car has the performance to outright beat them.


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[diffuser]

Andrian Newey and Peter Prodrommou left to Red Bull. Paddy Lowe left to Mercedes. I also remember Norberg Haug left to Mercedes though I'm not sure if he was Mercedes from the start. Still all I'm saying is that the team who dominated the 1998 and 1999 was dismantled. It's no wonder their performance dropped. The good thing though is that they are creating a team just as good as the pne who have lost.

Norbert Haug was the Mercedes official, leading their Engine division and racing operations, while McLaren was their works partner. In fact, it's him who convinced the Mercedes board to own their own racing team and engineered the Brawn GP acquisition.

McLaren was Mercedes at the time, owning 40% of it's shares and on the road to acquire the rest. During 2008 they decided to sell McLaren shares starting 2009 in small amounts until 2012.

So yes, McLaren from 1998 upto 2008 was Mercedes (And before that it was kinda a project of Philip Morris).

That is the 1 billion and 1st time this has been mentioned.

[diffuser]

Fingers crossed I hope for a safe start tomorrow and pick up as many points as possible. Target is to finish up in front of the Hass.

Disagree... I believe the target should be to remain 8th... Beating the Haas is something that we want the team to do, but not realistic based on both team’s pace... Issues at the front or a killer strategy may place the team in front of one of them, but I don’t know if the car has the performance to outright beat them.


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There is no doubt in my mind we can challenge hass. I believe we're faster on the yellow tire.

[SmallSoldier]

Fingers crossed I hope for a safe start tomorrow and pick up as many points as possible. Target is to finish up in front of the Hass.

Disagree... I believe the target should be to remain 8th... Beating the Haas is something that we want the team to do, but not realistic based on both team’s pace... Issues at the front or a killer strategy may place the team in front of one of them, but I don’t know if the car has the performance to outright beat them.


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There is no doubt in my mind we can challenge hass. I believe we're faster on the yellow tire.

I would like to be as optimistic as you are... The long run pace didn’t imply that... But I hope you are right!


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