2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[ripleysend]

Mclaren is currently under negotiations whit Toyota over major pre 2011 Mercedes like colaboration.
Toyota is interested into buying Mclaren shares.
Both Toyota's twin wind tunnels in Cologne to be updated before start of deal.
Mclaren simulator will undergo complete overhaul before 2021.
New Renault deal will not be signed.
Alonso will be involved even after driving career.
Coca Cola will progressively increase sponsorship and will be major sponsor whit name included in team's title.
More big tech names to arrive including Paddy Lowe.

Would be wonderful if it were true, I have no information either direction.

But what I would say is that the lead time on designing, optimising and getting to reliability on these power units has to be at least three years from a standing start. Now of course it does have it's technology and experience from LMP1 which which would help considerably, and McLaren Applied Technologies can bring the same from it's supply of Honda battery packs and motors, and FE (assuming there's no IP restrictions in either case). Nevertheless, the lead time (and subsequent patience) and expense for a new engine supplier to enter the sport would still be considerable. They would need to be starting work now, if not already last year.

From the McLaren perspective I can certainly see the sense in it. Toyota is a decent / less competitive fit alongside McLaren Automotive's sports car range. It would also be interesting to see Toyota assist Applied Technologies in scaling and industrialising it's hybrid powertrain supply capability to the extent that McLaren Automotive needs for it's increasingly EV-driven future models. At present I doubt Applied Technologies is able to scale it's production nor reduce it's supply costs enough for the volumes Automotive would need in it's mainline products.

The wind tunnel and simulator upgrades would represent a considerable investment as well and be great for McLaren (McLaren's own wind tunnel is known to be out of date and flawed compared to rivals, whereas Toyota's is a known entity for McLaren already). Re the simulator, Toyota may find access to McLaren's simulator technology useful for it's own race car developments.

[ispano6]

Second rate parts I can believe. Used parts I find hard to believe. Source?

all over the internet
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro- ... 9/1377809/

Renault did not give them an engine with second rate or use parts. TR was forced to reuse parts because Renault did not have (or make) any available. That is a bit different than getting an engine with used parts.

I am not going to go dig the article up that said they would receive parts only to find them in a reused or recycled condition. Anyhow, it is McLarens problem now. We saw Renault surpass STR for what amounted to millions of prize money and all anyone can say about that is how convenient.

[M840TR]

Well, thats the first real race out of the way, and lets hope much taken on board.
Can not blame Lando, stuck behind a car on duff tyres and the options were to pit and be behind other cars, behind the car he could not pass, or face it out.

If it was not his first race he may have had a dive, but I think he is too sensible to to throw away a finish on a worse than 50/50. (no points likely, or different gamble)

I think this race should be taken in isolation and used as a sighter. Not good, but fire apart, not a disaster.

Qualifying is the actual performance indicator really. They're more or less 5th fastest, which is great. This track being notorious for high overtaking delta and Lando probably being told to turn the engine down after Sainz's blew up is what messed the race besides the bad start. Upcoming races should be better.

I have to disagree with this sorry. It would be if all the other teams and drivers had a perfect time of it, but as we know they did not.

It is very encouraging to see where Lando qualified, but there were several cars that did not get a perfect lap in.
OK, they may still not all have q'd infront of him, but just saying it is not a level playing field.

What was very encouraging is that the driver/car was capable of taking advantage of this, and I hope to see it happen during races.

You're sort of right since we'll only get a clearer picture till at least Spain or Canada but the team themselves have had issues with balance all weekend. This can be said of every team really, even Williams (Kubica reportedly got the car to work in his final quali attempt and couldn't believe the speed he carried through the corners so he got a bit overconfident and hit the wall). If Mclaren had no balance issues they would've maybe even been 4th fastest instead of 5th and have had much better race pace as a consequence (less tyre deg etc); but if and buts don't count in F1.
Also, encouragingly they were faster than Renault factory team. I know it's just the first race but among all the hype they were slower in quali AND the race; if Hulkenberg hadn't had a good start and the track were better for overtaking they'd be easily outdone by Alfa and Mclaren.

[SmallSoldier]

Mclaren is currently under negotiations whit Toyota over major pre 2011 Mercedes like colaboration.
Toyota is interested into buying Mclaren shares.
Both Toyota's twin wind tunnels in Cologne to be updated before start of deal.
Mclaren simulator will undergo complete overhaul before 2021.
New Renault deal will not be signed.
Alonso will be involved even after driving career.
Coca Cola will progressively increase sponsorship and will be major sponsor whit name included in team's title.
More big tech names to arrive including Paddy Lowe.

Would be wonderful if it were true, I have no information either direction.

But what I would say is that the lead time on designing, optimising and getting to reliability on these power units has to be at least three years from a standing start. Now of course it does have it's technology and experience from LMP1 which which would help considerably, and McLaren Applied Technologies can bring the same from it's supply of Honda battery packs and motors, and FE (assuming there's no IP restrictions in either case). Nevertheless, the lead time (and subsequent patience) and expense for a new engine supplier to enter the sport would still be considerable. They would need to be starting work now, if not already last year.

From the McLaren perspective I can certainly see the sense in it. Toyota is a decent / less competitive fit alongside McLaren Automotive's sports car range. It would also be interesting to see Toyota assist Applied Technologies in scaling and industrialising it's hybrid powertrain supply capability to the extent that McLaren Automotive needs for it's increasingly EV-driven future models. At present I doubt Applied Technologies is able to scale it's production nor reduce it's supply costs enough for the volumes Automotive would need in it's mainline products.

The wind tunnel and simulator upgrades would represent a considerable investment as well and be great for McLaren (McLaren's own wind tunnel is known to be out of date and flawed compared to rivals, whereas Toyota's is a known entity for McLaren already). Re the simulator, Toyota may find access to McLaren's simulator technology useful for it's own race car developments.

Mclaren’s Wind Tunnel isn’t “flawed” really... Simply it’s designed was aimed at cars that at the time where using an in-wash airflow design from the front wing and it isn’t wide enough to be used effectively for an outwash design... Increasing it’s dimensions to accomodate the new cars isn’t an investment they are willing to make right now.


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[Ground Effect]

Mclaren is currently under negotiations whit Toyota over major pre 2011 Mercedes like colaboration.
Toyota is interested into buying Mclaren shares.
Both Toyota's twin wind tunnels in Cologne to be updated before start of deal.
Mclaren simulator will undergo complete overhaul before 2021.
New Renault deal will not be signed.
Alonso will be involved even after driving career.
Coca Cola will progressively increase sponsorship and will be major sponsor whit name included in team's title.
More big tech names to arrive including Paddy Lowe.

Would be wonderful if it were true, I have no information either direction.

But what I would say is that the lead time on designing, optimising and getting to reliability on these power units has to be at least three years from a standing start. Now of course it does have it's technology and experience from LMP1 which which would help considerably, and McLaren Applied Technologies can bring the same from it's supply of Honda battery packs and motors, and FE (assuming there's no IP restrictions in either case). Nevertheless, the lead time (and subsequent patience) and expense for a new engine supplier to enter the sport would still be considerable. They would need to be starting work now, if not already last year.

From the McLaren perspective I can certainly see the sense in it. Toyota is a decent / less competitive fit alongside McLaren Automotive's sports car range. It would also be interesting to see Toyota assist Applied Technologies in scaling and industrialising it's hybrid powertrain supply capability to the extent that McLaren Automotive needs for it's increasingly EV-driven future models. At present I doubt Applied Technologies is able to scale it's production nor reduce it's supply costs enough for the volumes Automotive would need in it's mainline products.

The wind tunnel and simulator upgrades would represent a considerable investment as well and be great for McLaren (McLaren's own wind tunnel is known to be out of date and flawed compared to rivals, whereas Toyota's is a known entity for McLaren already). Re the simulator, Toyota may find access to McLaren's simulator technology useful for it's own race car developments.

Mclaren’s Wind Tunnel isn’t “flawed” really... Simply it’s designed was aimed at cars that at the time where using an in-wash airflow design from the front wing and it isn’t wide enough to be used effectively for an outwash design... Increasing it’s dimensions to accomodate the new cars isn’t an investment they are willing to make right now.


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I think this story may be some individual's FantasyF1. Someone has just mashed up recent happens around McLaren like Pat Fry returning, which makes Paddy Lowe coming back look possible, the Coca Cola deal, sprinkled Fernando's link with Toyota and you now have a soap opera. Bear in mind this story isn't being reported anywhere. A big company like Toyota coming back to F1, with McLaren and no buzz anywhere?
I don't think anybody should invest any consideration in this.

[ripleysend]

Mclaren is currently under negotiations whit Toyota over major pre 2011 Mercedes like colaboration.
Toyota is interested into buying Mclaren shares.
Both Toyota's twin wind tunnels in Cologne to be updated before start of deal.
Mclaren simulator will undergo complete overhaul before 2021.
New Renault deal will not be signed.
Alonso will be involved even after driving career.
Coca Cola will progressively increase sponsorship and will be major sponsor whit name included in team's title.
More big tech names to arrive including Paddy Lowe.

Would be wonderful if it were true, I have no information either direction.

But what I would say is that the lead time on designing, optimising and getting to reliability on these power units has to be at least three years from a standing start. Now of course it does have it's technology and experience from LMP1 which which would help considerably, and McLaren Applied Technologies can bring the same from it's supply of Honda battery packs and motors, and FE (assuming there's no IP restrictions in either case). Nevertheless, the lead time (and subsequent patience) and expense for a new engine supplier to enter the sport would still be considerable. They would need to be starting work now, if not already last year.

From the McLaren perspective I can certainly see the sense in it. Toyota is a decent / less competitive fit alongside McLaren Automotive's sports car range. It would also be interesting to see Toyota assist Applied Technologies in scaling and industrialising it's hybrid powertrain supply capability to the extent that McLaren Automotive needs for it's increasingly EV-driven future models. At present I doubt Applied Technologies is able to scale it's production nor reduce it's supply costs enough for the volumes Automotive would need in it's mainline products.

The wind tunnel and simulator upgrades would represent a considerable investment as well and be great for McLaren (McLaren's own wind tunnel is known to be out of date and flawed compared to rivals, whereas Toyota's is a known entity for McLaren already). Re the simulator, Toyota may find access to McLaren's simulator technology useful for it's own race car developments.

Mclaren’s Wind Tunnel isn’t “flawed” really... Simply it’s designed was aimed at cars that at the time where using an in-wash airflow design from the front wing and it isn’t wide enough to be used effectively for an outwash design... Increasing it’s dimensions to accomodate the new cars isn’t an investment they are willing to make right now.


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That's right, my bad

[RonDennis]

Mclaren is currently under negotiations whit Toyota over major pre 2011 Mercedes like colaboration.
Toyota is interested into buying Mclaren shares.
Both Toyota's twin wind tunnels in Cologne to be updated before start of deal.
Mclaren simulator will undergo complete overhaul before 2021.
New Renault deal will not be signed.
Alonso will be involved even after driving career.
Coca Cola will progressively increase sponsorship and will be major sponsor whit name included in team's title.
More big tech names to arrive including Paddy Lowe.

Would be wonderful if it were true, I have no information either direction.

But what I would say is that the lead time on designing, optimising and getting to reliability on these power units has to be at least three years from a standing start. Now of course it does have it's technology and experience from LMP1 which which would help considerably, and McLaren Applied Technologies can bring the same from it's supply of Honda battery packs and motors, and FE (assuming there's no IP restrictions in either case). Nevertheless, the lead time (and subsequent patience) and expense for a new engine supplier to enter the sport would still be considerable. They would need to be starting work now, if not already last year.

From the McLaren perspective I can certainly see the sense in it. Toyota is a decent / less competitive fit alongside McLaren Automotive's sports car range. It would also be interesting to see Toyota assist Applied Technologies in scaling and industrialising it's hybrid powertrain supply capability to the extent that McLaren Automotive needs for it's increasingly EV-driven future models. At present I doubt Applied Technologies is able to scale it's production nor reduce it's supply costs enough for the volumes Automotive would need in it's mainline products.

The wind tunnel and simulator upgrades would represent a considerable investment as well and be great for McLaren (McLaren's own wind tunnel is known to be out of date and flawed compared to rivals, whereas Toyota's is a known entity for McLaren already). Re the simulator, Toyota may find access to McLaren's simulator technology useful for it's own race car developments.

McLaren already planned to build a new tunnel, but it got denied. Zak Brown also said they would investing in their facilities and confirmed their simulator was getting dated, so it's likely one of the things that will get improved.

Finding the root of the problems has required the team to turn GP Fridays into an ongoing science experiment. At Suzuka in October both drivers griped that there had been no developments on the car since May. That's because many developments haven't worked as expected because of the "bottleneck" on the car, explains Stella, as well as the need for the team to rigorously evaluate its own processes.

"Even though we knew there were some areas that might be the culprit, it wasn't so obvious," he says. "So we had to conceive some tests to interrogate the entire car. It was a big effort in terms of experiments and tests with not necessarily what would have been raceable parts. And even if these tests provide clear answers, they can't necessarily be transformed and processed into something that can be developed for this year's car."

Development will continue to be difficult because the windtunnel at the McLaren Technology Centre is obsolete, and so 'baked in' to the building's structure that it cannot be brought up to the required standard. Under Dennis the company sought planning permission for a new facility that would house both the burgeoning McLaren Applied Technologies division and a new tunnel.

But it was bounced by the planning authorities on account of its traffic impact, even though the scheme included an underground-transport system that team insiders dubbed the 'Ronorail'. McLaren has been using the Toyota windtunnel in Cologne, adding an unwelcome layer of complication and expense to the team's research processes.

The Toyota story is simply BS. I even doubt if McLaren is interested in new partner. It seems more and more likely that there will be some budget cap from 2021 and the gap between all those engines will be much smaller around that time, similar what happened with the V8. What's the point of risking it all with a company that never has been succesfull in F1. Makes no sense at all. McLaren just have to be patient. This new philosophy is clearly the way to go and the most important pieces of the new squad still has to arrive.

[restless]

It is. Logistics and etc.
Only if something was approved BEFORE Melburn, it could be produced & installed

What? A few years ago pre-season testing was in Bahrain. Teams were flying in parts every night. The flight is approx 6 hours iirc. Should be no problem for the teams now, as it wasn't back then. It will of course depend on a particular parts lead time, but teams and their supply chains are adapted to push through development items at a rapid pace.

Yes, parts that were queued weeks ago and were sent asap as produced.
How exactly do you imagine modifying smth on chassis AFTER Melburn, discussing, approving to test, modeling, CFD checking, wind-tunnel-checking, approving for production AND producing for a week?
Iirc, here in the forum, some time ago people involved with F1 claimed practically anything has 3-4 weeks head-time to production
They simply dont have unlimited CFD and wind tunnel - mostly all time is pre-allocated for weeks ahead

[mclaren111]

It is. Logistics and etc.
Only if something was approved BEFORE Melburn, it could be produced & installed

What? A few years ago pre-season testing was in Bahrain. Teams were flying in parts every night. The flight is approx 6 hours iirc. Should be no problem for the teams now, as it wasn't back then. It will of course depend on a particular parts lead time, but teams and their supply chains are adapted to push through development items at a rapid pace.

Yes, parts that were queued weeks ago and were sent asap as produced.
How exactly do you imagine modifying smth on chassis AFTER Melburn, discussing, approving to test, modeling, CFD checking, wind-tunnel-checking, approving for production AND producing for a week?
Iirc, here in the forum, some time ago people involved with F1 claimed practically anything has 3-4 weeks head-time to production
They simply dont have unlimited CFD and wind tunnel - mostly all time is pre-allocated for weeks ahead

Agree... Also, testing were used to validate the new car & it's philosophy...

I'm not expecting a lot of updates in Bahrain...

[PhillipM]

I was looking forward to seeing what they did with the new bargboard whiskers/wings but turns out all they did was ship two revised ones out without the reinforcements/repairs that you could see on the test ones

[_cerber1]

I was looking forward to seeing what they did with the new bargboard whiskers/wings but turns out all they did was ship two revised ones out without the reinforcements/repairs that you could see on the test ones

Can bring in Bahrain?

[charliesmithhd]

I was looking forward to seeing what they did with the new bargboard whiskers/wings but turns out all they did was ship two revised ones out without the reinforcements/repairs that you could see on the test ones

Can bring in Bahrain?

They would have had 4 weeks since the last test by Bahrain, surely that’s enough for some small updates

[mwillems]

The car seems fundamentally decent. I expect that tracks with a smooth surface and medium to high speed corners will see the car be in its element. I also expect development to outpace the Haas.

[M840TR]

The car seems fundamentally decent. I expect that tracks with a smooth surface and medium to high speed corners will see the car be in its element. I also expect development to outpace the Haas.

Even though the grid fluctuates in accordance with the track, don't expect them to be comfortably clear of Haas at least till Hungary. They were 0.5 ahead and that's with the reported engine problems Ferrari are having. That car is very very good and it might be even better with the reported issues solved.

[willmesquita]

I see you guys targeting Haas and I just wanna us keeping Q3 and scoring points for this year.

Shame on me!