2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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The biggest change in the team might just be that the frustration for the first time since 2014 is gone. Not to blame Renault, but more RedBull themselves it was always "yes, but....". This also should be of influence on young Verstappen, who drove a mature race.

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dren
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I'm hoping the car's performance will be a bit closer to the front on more conventional tracks.
Honda!

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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dren wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 16:19
I'm hoping the car's performance will be a bit closer to the front on more conventional tracks.
I am looking forward to see bahrain gp to see more obvious of party mode and race pace. Maybe pole position maybe first race win of new partnership.
I wonder if we can see both Toro Rosso and Redbull locks podium. For example Monaco. Why not?

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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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"We have too little downforce, but that's born of the philosophy of the last five years, where we constantly had to compensate for lack of performance. We have always looked at the straights as little air resistance as possible. That's why we did not have any big wings in Melbourne. They do not exist in our imagination. "
"We try to solve this as soon as possible. As fast as we bring it through CFD development and production. "

"There was no problem with the engine since the first practice lap. We wanted to maximize energy for the last three laps, but unfortunately Max slipped off the track. "

"We still had plenty of overtaking mode power and a full battery in the back of the hand. The strategy was designed to go into the final laps with the best possible tires and pick up everything for the final. Anyone who knows Max knows: he would have tried. "

"The Bottas had two laps to fill up everything optimally. That was a quali-mode in the end. We would not have had a chance. "

Red Bull estimates that 10 rather than 20 hp missing on Mercedes. This gap should be closed as soon as possible.

 "The board, which was in Melbourne, has promised us that more power will come soon. It's up to us to develop the chassis to catch up with the people ahead of us. "

"If the performance increase is significant, we will not wait until the eighth race. Then we also accept a penalty for a run-off. "
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... lien-2019/

Sevach
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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That's a first!!!

Bill
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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In 2016 Honda found 30hp in Australia after winter testing with clever engine mapping 10 hp is nothing

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Quantum
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything. :lol:
"Interplay of triads"

Capharol
Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Quantum wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:31
That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything. :lol:
do you have evidence of the opposite? #-o ..... guess not :roll: ...thank you :-$

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Quantum
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Capharol wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:37
Quantum wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:31
That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything. :lol:
do you have evidence of the opposite? #-o ..... guess not :roll: ...thank you :-$
If Red Bull lacked downforce relative to their engine power they lacked foresight to set up the car with the required means to set the optimal laptime.
If Merc does 320kmh down a straight, it's the engine. If Red Bull does 320kmh it's because it a lack of downforce.
It's the same old rubbish been rehashed by Marko.

Bottom line is, designing a car is about number crunching, if they got the numbers wrong why on earth is Marko blaming Renault? They have nothing to do with it!
"Interplay of triads"

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Jambier
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Marko... still doing the " Renault's fault" :lol: :lol:
This guy should work with Trump communication team.

If Honda is now 20Hp down on Mercedes it is perfect then.
I assume this is on race mode, qualy may be more.

Capharol
Capharol
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Quantum wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:48
Capharol wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:37
Quantum wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:31
That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything. :lol:
do you have evidence of the opposite? #-o ..... guess not :roll: ...thank you :-$
If Red Bull lacked downforce relative to their engine power they lacked foresight to set up the car with the required means to set the optimal laptime.
If Merc does 320kmh down a straight, it's the engine. If Red Bull does 320kmh it's because it a lack of downforce.
It's the same old rubbish been rehashed by Marko.

Bottom line is, designing a car is about number crunching, if they got the numbers wrong why on earth is Marko blaming Renault? They have nothing to do with it!
who know the package better ? you or Helmut Marko? who is closer to the facts? you or Helmut Marko?
i don't say i believe all Helmut Marko or Horner is telling, but keep saying it is all a lie... someday you can say "see i was right" and you can applaud yourself for it.

and still you didn't gave any prove of the opposite so pls .... :-$

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Quantum wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:48


If Red Bull lacked downforce relative to their engine power they lacked foresight to set up the car with the required means to set the optimal laptime.
If Merc does 320kmh down a straight, it's the engine. If Red Bull does 320kmh it's because it a lack of downforce.
It's the same old rubbish been rehashed by Marko.

Bottom line is, designing a car is about number crunching, if they got the numbers wrong why on earth is Marko blaming Renault? They have nothing to do with it!
I (and I think noone) believe Honda powerfull as much as mercedes. We just believe Honda is closer than ever and can catch rivals in this season.
max speed is not just power thing. There are 3 Mercedes powered teams and other 2 have generally higher max speed despite I believe works team gets more from Engine.
So I understand from that statement that they decided to use more df as they saw engine in the race and now it looks feasible to them. But again Redbull do not need to use same level of df with Mercedes or other one. I believe they have a very good mechanical grip. Of course this grip advantage may go to Mercedes side at some turns. But generally Redbull is best one. Monaco is one evidence for that.
Next race bahrain and it is some kind of low speed turns long straights race. So we will see them out there.
If mercedes goes 3d team and Redbull Ferrari go first two I don't surprise.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Quantum wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:31
That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything. :lol:
It's not. They've obviously not been able to add anything on the car in the last few years that adds drag in any significant way, simply because they can't recoup the loss of straight line performance from the downforce they can create because they don't have the power to overcome it.

It seems as though Red Bull have sensibly built a car rather conservatively this season based on their past experience rather than some hypothetical numbers from Honda. Now they know the numbers actually look real they can really start shoving development onto that chassis, as long as Honda keep up. It's small wonder they brought forward an upgrade to the Australian Grandprix.

Frankly, let us all hope Red Bull and Honda can really move forwards, because depending on what is happening down the pitlane at Ferrari we could be in for one boring season otherwise alas.

Mind you, switching topics, I sometimes wonder why Red Bull allow Marko to mouth off in this fashion.

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Quantum
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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munudeges wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 19:25
Snip
I don't agree and I'll expalin why.
Capharol wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 19:10

who know the package better ? you or Helmut Marko? who is closer to the facts? you or Helmut Marko?
i don't say i believe all Helmut Marko or Horner is telling, but keep saying it is all a lie... someday you can say "see i was right" and you can applaud yourself for it.

and still you didn't gave any prove of the opposite so pls .... :-$
You cannot have a first rate team with Newey, and probably the biggest aero budget in F1 and tell me they missed their DF target because....."Renault".
The engine data will have been corroborated via sister team Torro Rosso. A SEASON's worth of data to sift through, and Honda focusing pretty much solely on the Red Bull project for 2019.
Can we all agree the above to be accurate?

Then we can move onto the comments from insiders and stipulated milestones....

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13965 ... an-renault



Toro Rosso believes that Honda's newly upgraded engine is already more powerful than Renault's current engine
When asked about that situation, and what that therefore meant for Red Bull's prospects in 2019, Horner said: "Month by month they are getting stronger and stronger, and the engines that they are bringing to the circuit now are getting closer and closer to the front of the field.
So for more than 6 months Red Bull were aware of Honda's rate of progress, and even knew that the engine was already more powerful than the Renault.
Not only that, but they even said the level of integration was a step beyond Renault, call it a "thing of Beauty" with cooperation on a "different level" to Renault.

Fast forward 6 months, and RB nail the speed traps compared to Ferrari and Mercedes in Oz, something they have pointedly and ironically used to show how inferior the Renault is.
Marko then suggests they didn't have enough Downforce, making a mockery of a seasons worth of data to go on, a more powerful engine, and better integration of team and engine(all sourced by Red Bull themselves). So either Marko is lying, or Red Bull are telling fibs. I'll go with Marko telling porky pies.

I don't need to prove anything. Red Bull themselves have shown that Marko's comments are BS.
I don't require applause, polite discussion would be welcome however :wink:
"Interplay of triads"

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 17:55
"We have too little downforce, but that's born of the philosophy of the last five years, where we constantly had to compensate for lack of performance. We have always looked at the straights as little air resistance as possible. That's why we did not have any big wings in Melbourne. They do not exist in our imagination. "
"We try to solve this as soon as possible. As fast as we bring it through CFD development and production. "

"There was no problem with the engine since the first practice lap. We wanted to maximize energy for the last three laps, but unfortunately Max slipped off the track. "

"We still had plenty of overtaking mode power and a full battery in the back of the hand. The strategy was designed to go into the final laps with the best possible tires and pick up everything for the final. Anyone who knows Max knows: he would have tried. "

"The Bottas had two laps to fill up everything optimally. That was a quali-mode in the end. We would not have had a chance. "

Red Bull estimates that 10 rather than 20 hp missing on Mercedes. This gap should be closed as soon as possible.

 "The board, which was in Melbourne, has promised us that more power will come soon. It's up to us to develop the chassis to catch up with the people ahead of us. "

"If the performance increase is significant, we will not wait until the eighth race. Then we also accept a penalty for a run-off. "
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... lien-2019/
I figured as much when I wrote
"To me, and take with a grain or pound of salt, the car isn't running enough wing for this specific track(not entirely their fault either, a learning experience). The power they have, they could afford to run a bit more downforce and drag compared to Mercedes and Ferrari. Granted it's a moving target from track to track, so yes as the season wears on, and they know how to balance drag, downforce, and top speed to get the best time from the package the performance can improve.

In Q3 Max lost most of his time to Hamilton on corner exit, and non DRS straights, indicating the Mercedes lump still has some extra grunt, and either the car is packing more downforce in general, or the suspension is working better on slow corner exits. I'm going with the former, they can live with slightly lower top speeds because they still have a power advantage, and more time is gained in the corners."

In the race Bottas was on average ~.35 seconds a lap faster. Fastest lap Bottas was just over .6 seconds faster, roughly equal to the qualifying gap. So I think this gap is realistic, as well as there being potential for Red Bull and Honda to close that gap. A quarter second from Honda, and a quarter second from the chassis will put them on par with Mercedes on every track. As it is now, the balance of power will be a moving target, on some tracks they'll be closer, on a few they may be ahead. The downforce and power deficit only amounts to just over .5 seconds so it's not the end of the world, however out-developing Mercedes will not be easy.

Realistically barring some revelation, I can see Red Bull chassis making up .2 seconds to Mercedes this year, and Honda another .15. A gap of just over .2 at Albert Park is enough for the human aspect to make a difference, and may be enough to mount a challenge over the year, especially if Ferrari decides to join the title fight. If the top 3 are within .3 seconds and they're all taking points off each other, then it increases Red Bull's chances. Unfortunately a two horse race between Mercedes and Red Bull with the current deficit will be very difficult to overcome.

Fortunately this is just the start of the season, it's a year long struggle, with many different venues, many different circumstances. It took Hamilton 5 races last year before he got into his groove, it took Verstappen 6 races and DNF's before getting into his groove. While the car improves its imperative that RB maximize their points and opportunities to score. Consistency and lack of mistakes is a large part of winning the championship, it's how Alonso took a slower car to the last race and lost out by 1 point, on two different seasons, consistency, and lack of mistakes.
Saishū kōnā