2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[Quantum]

Please learn physics

Engine's are not responsible for downforce.

Quite unbelievable you have the stones to post that.

It is. Please learn also how brain work. After 5 years lack of power, the low drag template is already in their head. They also would not risk anything to change their approach without knowing true race pace, especially with new engine.

So, you are saying that they knew the engine was more powerful than the Renault, but went ahead and continued with an adverse strategy?
That not physics. That's the antithesis of Physics.

I'll add that they knew exact HP figures.
Red Bull are known to have access to test rigs.
They will know very well what the engine is capable of down to the the last Nm of torque, and Kw of Hp.
That physics.

Unless you are suggesting a team of Red Bulls calibre messed up their calculations for something as simple as drag to hp?
That's catastrophic.
Please, using physics explain how they missed the boat with a seasons data from toro rosso, and a test rig from avl, and data streams from Honda for 6+ months?

[Singabule]

Engine's are not responsible for downforce.

Quite unbelievable you have the stones to post that.

It is. Please learn also how brain work. After 5 years lack of power, the low drag template is already in their head. They also would not risk anything to change their approach without knowing true race pace, especially with new engine.

So, you are saying that they knew the engine was more powerful than the Renault, but went ahead and continued with an adverse strategy?
That not physics. That's the antithesis of Physics.

I'll add that they knew exact HP figures.
Red Bull are known to have access to test rigs.
They will know very well what the engine is capable of down to the the last Nm of torque, and Kw of Hp.
That physics.

Unless you are suggesting a team of Red Bulls calibre messed up their calculations for something as simple as drag to hp?
That's catastrophic.
Please, using physics explain how they missed the boat with a seasons data from toro rosso, and a test rig from avl, and data streams from Honda for 6+ months?

Honda dont have AVL rig. Yes, sharing data, but nobody know the reliable output level for the race? More power would not harm your performance, but more drag is! The key is to create balance between this two but unfortunately not there yet, as risk to create more DF with additional drag is more risky than using the current philosophy. Maybe you can change your philosophy overnight, but for organisations as big as RB, so difficult and slow.

[Quantum]

Red Bull have access to AVL rigs.
Rumour has it they even have one in their Milton Keynes factory.

My take, Red Bull didn't have such a crazily dumb issue.
Turning up to a race with a DF package not suitable for it's more powerful engine.

I cannot believe any Red Bull fan would defend Marko's comment, which is BS, fornthe damage to the teams reputation over that comment.
He was sniping at Renault, and got his wires twisted.
He say dumb stuff all the time. And this was another classic example.

[shingles]

Of course Marko says crazy stuff. We fans are not the only ones reading into what he is saying. People stick a mic in his face, he isn’t trying to give anything away, so he says random stuff. It’s funny how people can read into so much of this stuff. Only thing that matters is what happens after the race. Fun to speculate but don’t need to get all angry.

[Wazari]

Maybe consider this scenario; RB15 was initially designed anticipated kW from 619 of 618 kW + X kW increase. Actual kW of Spec 1 619 ended up with 618 kW + Y kW. Let's say Y is 130% of X. Maybe that might require some changes to optimize chassis for the actual new kW figures?

[Quantum]

Maybe consider this scenario; RB15 was initially designed anticipated kW from 619 of 618 kW + X kW increase. Actual kW of Spec 1 619 ended up with 618 kW + Y kW. Let's say Y is 130% of X. Maybe that might require some changes to optimize chassis for the actual new kW figures?

All mitigated by the simple role of set up at GP weekend.
Data is fed in real time back to the factory, and feedback from drivers is considered in set up changes.

And there will be changes. No car is perfect out the box.

Consider also, wing changes at pitstops.
Driver reports too much understeer, wing is dialled down relative to rear.
Too much oversteer wing dialled up.
That's on the fly.

If you're at a GP venue and you have access to factory support, there is no excuse. DF front to rear is calculated to nth degrees.
Wing could've been added very easily if it was genuinely an issue.

The other problem is that Marko mentions this after the race.
These things are picked up in FP1!
And dealt with I might add.

[Singabule]

Maybe consider this scenario; RB15 was initially designed anticipated kW from 619 of 618 kW + X kW increase. Actual kW of Spec 1 619 ended up with 618 kW + Y kW. Let's say Y is 130% of X. Maybe that might require some changes to optimize chassis for the actual new kW figures?

Good morning Wazari san, your daughter is going well? Yes, we know that chasis and wings need adjustment, but fortunately it should can be done much faster than PU side

[Singabule]

Maybe consider this scenario; RB15 was initially designed anticipated kW from 619 of 618 kW + X kW increase. Actual kW of Spec 1 619 ended up with 618 kW + Y kW. Let's say Y is 130% of X. Maybe that might require some changes to optimize chassis for the actual new kW figures?

All mitigated by the simple role of set up at GP weekend.
Data is fed in real time back to the factory, and feedback from drivers is considered in set up changes.

And there will be changes. No car is perfect out the box.

Consider also, wing changes at pitstops.
Driver reports too much understeer, wing is dialled down relative to rear.
Too much oversteer wing dialled up.
That's on the fly.

If you're at a GP venue and you have access to factory support, there is no excuse. DF front to rear is calculated to nth degrees.
Wing could've been added very easily if it was genuinely an issue.

The other problem is that Marko mentions this after the race.
These things are picked up in FP1!
And dealt with I might add.

Do you mean adjusting AOA? F1 is not indycar, the wing AOA cannot be adjusted so much as it depends on design overall

[Quantum]

I'm saying that if it is possible to do that with a screw driver in IndyCar, where speeds reach 230mph, in a matter of 10 seconds, why is 30-50hp going to screw your entire concept with 6 months planning?

[munudeges]

You cannot have a first rate team with Newey, and probably the biggest aero budget in F1 and tell me they missed their DF target because....."Renault".

Yes you can, and there is no 'downforce target'. Adding downforce to a car incurs drag. You try and minimise that as much as you can via various methods, but there are always trade-offs.

As has been explained multiple times to you, and it's fallen on deaf ears, you've got to balance how much cornering performance and downforce you add to the car versus the corresponding drag that it adds. If you have an engine supplier that consistently isn't adding power to counteract and overcome that drag then you aren't moving forwards and the drag you add becomes counterproductive. Everything has to move and develop together.

[Singabule]

I'm saying that if it is possible to do that with a screw driver in IndyCar, where speeds reach 230mph, in a matter of 10 seconds, why is 30-50hp going to screw your entire concept with 6 months planning?

Please read Wazari quotation, let say 6 months ago honda PU is 10kw stronger than Renault. Is it worth it to revamp the philosophy? No. How about suddenly 2 months ago when Esso bring fuel update suddenly Honda hit 30kw? Is it possible to change philosophy in 2 months? No. Then what is your point with screwdriver?

[munudeges]

So, you are saying that they knew the engine was more powerful than the Renault, but went ahead and continued with an adverse strategy?

Until they actually see what turns up at the track, then yes. It simply would not be prudent to do anything else given Honda's history and their own experience.

It's also not adverse. If Honda had turned up with something inferior that bore no relation to what they projected and Red Bull had bought into that, they would have ended up with a sitting duck on track and would have had to start one massive drag reduction programme which is infinitely more difficult.

I'm afraid you're just not thinking this through properly. At all.

[langedweil]

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?

Ehm, that wasn’t said at all in that article, that’s just your interpretation.
Which is fine in itself, but not necessarily more true than others.
As Wazari states, I assume the expectations based on the 619 were high, but even lower than eventually melbourne showed. Now the benchmark is set, more DF can be bolted on.
That they’re behind Merc with a 6yrs stable and winning engine/chassis/philosophy platform, isn’t much of a shame of course.

As to the deficit; Bot might have gone a little faster, but Ves lost a lot behind Vet & Ham, so all considered, Godlameroso’s guestimate won’t be far off.

Anyway, I don’t see your point really, and I guess the lot of us gets it, respects it, and don’t think we need another 5 pages of reclaiming the same.

[Capharol]

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?

Ehm, that wasn’t said at all in that article, that’s just your interpretation.
Which is fine in itself, but not necessarily more true than others.
As Wazari states, I assume the expectations based on the 619 were high, but even lower than eventually melbourne showed. Now the benchmark is set, more DF can be bolted on.
That they’re behind Merc with a 6yrs stable and winning engine/chassis/philosophy platform, isn’t much of a shame of course.

As to the deficit; Bot might have gone a little faster, but Ves lost a lot behind Vet & Ham, so all considered, Godlameroso’s guestimate won’t be far off.

Anyway, I don’t see your point really, and I guess the lot of us gets it, respects it, and don’t think we need another 5 pages of reclaiming the same.

thank you

[etusch]

Verstappen says here that he overtake vettel by using party mode. He says he just followed Hamilton (and followed easily ) until the end part of the race as team told him to do so and attack at the end.

https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/verst ... i/4355437/