McLaren MCL34

[Jackles-UK]

I really don’t think the FW is the reason for inherent understeer. As many have said, it’s a huge surface aided by the nose/cape, chassis turning vanes etc. but for almost two decades the formula has been a rear limited one (front wings only got more complex to try and recover more rear aero) so I think it’s more likely a mechanical issue.

Ballast placement, suspension stiffness, anti-roll bar settings, compression rates, tyre pressures - all immensely important but not as sexy as a shiny new FW!

[PhillipM]

That would be two decades before wider, stickier tyres, wider floors, much longer wheelbases, far more complex bargeboards for feeding the floor and diffuser, fixed weight distribution and the taller and wider rear wing, however...

I don't see it being too much of an issue once teams get on top of the tyres again, everyone was struggling with the new tyres a bit at one point or another.

[mwillems]

I really don’t think the FW is the reason for inherent understeer. As many have said, it’s a huge surface aided by the nose/cape, chassis turning vanes etc. but for almost two decades the formula has been a rear limited one (front wings only got more complex to try and recover more rear aero) so I think it’s more likely a mechanical issue.

Ballast placement, suspension stiffness, anti-roll bar settings, compression rates, tyre pressures - all immensely important but not as sexy as a shiny new FW!

I'm going to bring it back to the shiny new wing once more, just to ask a question from the tech heads. Sorry!
Also, they seem to understand the issue and know they need updated parts, so I think it is more likely to have ruled out those set up changes, possibly. Not definitely, but possibly.

Is it possible that because we have traded outwash over air under and around the car (Lower outboard on wing and larger inner sections versus say the Mercedes or RB solution), we are losing underfloor downforce and gaining drag reduction.... but in such a way that the trade of results is a net slower car? Maybe it is better to take the drag penalty because of a potential stronger benefit of the car being sucked more to the ground, front and back?

[SmallSoldier]

I really don’t think the FW is the reason for inherent understeer. As many have said, it’s a huge surface aided by the nose/cape, chassis turning vanes etc. but for almost two decades the formula has been a rear limited one (front wings only got more complex to try and recover more rear aero) so I think it’s more likely a mechanical issue.

Ballast placement, suspension stiffness, anti-roll bar settings, compression rates, tyre pressures - all immensely important but not as sexy as a shiny new FW!

I'm going to bring it back to the shiny new wing once more, just to ask a question from the tech heads. Sorry!
Also, they seem to understand the issue and know they need updated parts, so I think it is more likely to have ruled out those set up changes, possibly. Not definitely, but possibly.

Is it possible that because we have traded outwash over air under and around the car (Lower outboard on wing and larger inner sections versus say the Mercedes or RB solution), we are losing underfloor downforce and gaining drag reduction.... but in such a way that the trade of results is a net slower car? Maybe it is better to take the drag penalty because of a potential stronger benefit of the car being sucked more to the ground, front and back?

It’s way too early to really know the car potential... But for some reason, what Mclaren seem to be trying to do reminds me of Williams in 2014-2015... The Williams in those years bet for a car that was very quick in high speed circuits (very low drag), but wasn’t very quick in the short / low speed circuits... That Williams finished third in the Championship both years.

If what the team wants to do is show progress this season, focusing on the high speed tracks seem to be an smart idea... Not only are there more of those during the season (therefore more opportunities to make points), they are also tracks were passing is easier than in the slow ones (Melbourne, Monaco, Singapore for example) that are beneficial if you have a good grid position, but if you don’t nail qualifying your weekend is most probably ruined... So the fast tracks represent way more opportunities to finish in the points and show progress year on year, which for the shareholders and sponsors is a must this year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mwillems]

I really don’t think the FW is the reason for inherent understeer. As many have said, it’s a huge surface aided by the nose/cape, chassis turning vanes etc. but for almost two decades the formula has been a rear limited one (front wings only got more complex to try and recover more rear aero) so I think it’s more likely a mechanical issue.

Ballast placement, suspension stiffness, anti-roll bar settings, compression rates, tyre pressures - all immensely important but not as sexy as a shiny new FW!

I'm going to bring it back to the shiny new wing once more, just to ask a question from the tech heads. Sorry!
Also, they seem to understand the issue and know they need updated parts, so I think it is more likely to have ruled out those set up changes, possibly. Not definitely, but possibly.

Is it possible that because we have traded outwash over air under and around the car (Lower outboard on wing and larger inner sections versus say the Mercedes or RB solution), we are losing underfloor downforce and gaining drag reduction.... but in such a way that the trade of results is a net slower car? Maybe it is better to take the drag penalty because of a potential stronger benefit of the car being sucked more to the ground, front and back?

It’s way too early to really know the car potential... But for some reason, what Mclaren seem to be trying to do reminds me of Williams in 2014-2015... The Williams in those years bet for a car that was very quick in high speed circuits (very low drag), but wasn’t very quick in the short / low speed circuits... That Williams finished third in the Championship both years.

If what the team wants to do is show progress this season, focusing on the high speed tracks seem to be an smart idea... Not only are there more of those during the season (therefore more opportunities to make points), they are also tracks were passing is easier than in the slow ones (Melbourne, Monaco, Singapore for example) that are beneficial if you have a good grid position, but if you don’t nail qualifying your weekend is most probably ruined... So the fast tracks represent way more opportunities to finish in the points and show progress year on year, which for the shareholders and sponsors is a must this year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

But I think it is worth discussing the potential risk/reward of the front wing philosophy in here.

I'm just curious about whether folks think there is much in that tradeoff.

[diffuser]

Got this from the f1 technical on 2019 2 aero write up. You can clearly see what the difference in tire wake with 2018 FW aero vs 2019 1 (plane horizontal strakes) vs 2019 2 (outward angled horizontal strakes).

https://u.cubeupload.com/turbof1/GIF4.gif

[zoroastar]

I really don’t think the FW is the reason for inherent understeer. As many have said, it’s a huge surface aided by the nose/cape, chassis turning vanes etc. but for almost two decades the formula has been a rear limited one (front wings only got more complex to try and recover more rear aero) so I think it’s more likely a mechanical issue.

Ballast placement, suspension stiffness, anti-roll bar settings, compression rates, tyre pressures - all immensely important but not as sexy as a shiny new FW!

I'm going to bring it back to the shiny new wing once more, just to ask a question from the tech heads. Sorry!
Also, they seem to understand the issue and know they need updated parts, so I think it is more likely to have ruled out those set up changes, possibly. Not definitely, but possibly.

Is it possible that because we have traded outwash over air under and around the car (Lower outboard on wing and larger inner sections versus say the Mercedes or RB solution), we are losing underfloor downforce and gaining drag reduction.... but in such a way that the trade of results is a net slower car? Maybe it is better to take the drag penalty because of a potential stronger benefit of the car being sucked more to the ground, front and back?

It’s way too early to really know the car potential... But for some reason, what Mclaren seem to be trying to do reminds me of Williams in 2014-2015... The Williams in those years bet for a car that was very quick in high speed circuits (very low drag), but wasn’t very quick in the short / low speed circuits... That Williams finished third in the Championship both years.

If what the team wants to do is show progress this season, focusing on the high speed tracks seem to be an smart idea... Not only are there more of those during the season (therefore more opportunities to make points), they are also tracks were passing is easier than in the slow ones (Melbourne, Monaco, Singapore for example) that are beneficial if you have a good grid position, but if you don’t nail qualifying your weekend is most probably ruined... So the fast tracks represent way more opportunities to finish in the points and show progress year on year, which for the shareholders and sponsors is a must this year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

in 2014-2015 the williams had a huge advantage in that it had the mercedes pu, which at the time, was way more dominant than it is these days. im not sure that any team can depend on straight line speed alone to guarantee results. im sure that one of mclarens objectives was to not be at the bottom of the speed traps every race but hopefully they have something in the pipeline to make them faster in the corners. at least they wont be sitting ducks on the straights anymore though. i just dont see them blasting past the haas's or the alfas on straights. of course, like you said, good qualifying is key.

[M840TR]

I really don’t think the FW is the reason for inherent understeer. As many have said, it’s a huge surface aided by the nose/cape, chassis turning vanes etc. but for almost two decades the formula has been a rear limited one (front wings only got more complex to try and recover more rear aero) so I think it’s more likely a mechanical issue.

Ballast placement, suspension stiffness, anti-roll bar settings, compression rates, tyre pressures - all immensely important but not as sexy as a shiny new FW!

I'm going to bring it back to the shiny new wing once more, just to ask a question from the tech heads. Sorry!
Also, they seem to understand the issue and know they need updated parts, so I think it is more likely to have ruled out those set up changes, possibly. Not definitely, but possibly.

Is it possible that because we have traded outwash over air under and around the car (Lower outboard on wing and larger inner sections versus say the Mercedes or RB solution), we are losing underfloor downforce and gaining drag reduction.... but in such a way that the trade of results is a net slower car? Maybe it is better to take the drag penalty because of a potential stronger benefit of the car being sucked more to the ground, front and back?

The whole point of the tapered FW is to not let turbulent air disrupt floor/diffuser performance. That's why they focused on the outwash instead of upwash. The FW doesn't generate significant drag anyway - specially without the cascades now - even if wider. The understeer problem has to do with several things like absence of S-duct and tapered FW.

[M840TR]

Got this from the f1 technical on 2019 2 aero write up. You can clearly see what the difference in tire wake with 2018 FW aero vs 2019 1 (plane horizontal strakes) vs 2019 2 (outward angled horizontal strakes).

https://u.cubeupload.com/turbof1/GIF4.gif

I reckon Mcl34 is somewhere in the middle since it produces more outwash than the original model.

[f1rules]

unconventional but nice angle to show some details
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2r1cj9XcAIWmNa.jpg

[f1rules]

is that a gurney flap we are witnessing for the first time this year?
fabrega

[M840TR]

is that a gurney flap we are witnessing for the first time this year?
fabrega
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2vDlvwXQAI8b0p.jpg

Either that's a reflection or the absolute tiniest gurney flap I have ever seen.

[Benii6]

Is it the same rear wing than in Australia?


@AlbertFabrega

[_cerber1]

is that a gurney flap we are witnessing for the first time this year?
fabrega
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2vDlvwXQAI8b0p.jpg

And what's new?

[M840TR]

is that a gurney flap we are witnessing for the first time this year?
fabrega
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2vDlvwXQAI8b0p.jpg

And what's new?

Nothing much in this photo.