2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[RonDennis]

Remember Lando was caught out at the start, while Hulk had an amazing start. Lando was always chasing Hulk after going off and dropping to 15th. But I'd say their pace was pretty similar.

This is very true, and Lando did a heartening job for a British Mclaren fan Pace was similar, came from similar positions although Lando went a couple of places further back and came through behind Hulk for a massive comeback. But he wasn't eating up the Renaults by any margin and Hulk was on course to finish ahead. A terrific achievement by him and I feel like that fact is being bypassed. If you want to evaluate the cars, you just can't bypass that fact. There were cars on our level in race trim and others who weren't massively far behind. The Alfa in Kimis hands is pretty decent and one successful upgrade from being yet more of a danger to Mclaren in the race.

We are in the middle of a massive development fight, no doubt about it and it's too close for anyone to be number four, five or six.

At least that is my opinion. Some Q3s and one good drive does not a season make. But I would hope (and nothing more) that it is the start of something.

Absolutely and spot on... I’m not saying that McLaren is better than Renault, the first 2 races haven’t been a clear representation of Renault’s pace for me and I have a feeling that they are way better than what their results show.

But I believe that the data supports the fact that at least in Bahrain, McLaren was the superior car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the car is even better than Norris showed. Don't get me wrong, Norris is doing a fine job so far, but Sainz was the one that was pretty close to Verstappen during his Toro Rosso days. He was certainly a couple of tenths per lap quicker than Norris during both weekends.

[SmallSoldier]

This is very true, and Lando did a heartening job for a British Mclaren fan Pace was similar, came from similar positions although Lando went a couple of places further back and came through behind Hulk for a massive comeback. But he wasn't eating up the Renaults by any margin and Hulk was on course to finish ahead. A terrific achievement by him and I feel like that fact is being bypassed. If you want to evaluate the cars, you just can't bypass that fact. There were cars on our level in race trim and others who weren't massively far behind. The Alfa in Kimis hands is pretty decent and one successful upgrade from being yet more of a danger to Mclaren in the race.

We are in the middle of a massive development fight, no doubt about it and it's too close for anyone to be number four, five or six.

At least that is my opinion. Some Q3s and one good drive does not a season make. But I would hope (and nothing more) that it is the start of something.

Absolutely and spot on... I’m not saying that McLaren is better than Renault, the first 2 races haven’t been a clear representation of Renault’s pace for me and I have a feeling that they are way better than what their results show.

But I believe that the data supports the fact that at least in Bahrain, McLaren was the superior car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That tyres data leads me to think we were fuel saving at the end. We made some time up on one set of used tyres, but weren't able to at the end of the race. Was it tyres, or could it have been that we had attacked for all we could afford and had to drive more conservatively afterwards. Or for all we know we were faster and they saw a blip in the data from the engine or MGU-K. How much were the Mclarens and Renaults fueled up?

I just feel that if we go either way it is an assumption. Anyway, I'm going to leave this particular discussion, I'm not sure there are facts enough to support any one conclusion but everyone is entitled to their own opinion whatever it may be, or however wrong you are, or I am

Norris reportes during his last stint that he was having brake issues... That and the fact that he probably used a big chunk of fuel in during the first half of the race to make his way through the field may have made him lower his pace in the last stint (he also only had a used set of sorts for the end of the race and I believe that the best “racing tire was the Medium... Since Norris kept Hulk’s pace on the Medium while Hulk was using a new set of Softs)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mwillems]

Not trying to open a can of worms on the Carlos/Max incident, don't know if this has been posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18OE3O_t7mM

It would be interesting to see the telemetry... It would seem as if once he saw the Sainz was ahead, he “released” the brake just to get the car in there and ended up hitting Sainz...

But the reality is that it doesn’t matter at this point, since it won’t change the outcome


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yea i agree. thats why every driver on the grid knows not to pass max. sainz should have given him more room but max would rather do anything than get passed, and it usually results in a collision. its impossible to prove without telemetry but i think that he used the mclaren to slow his car down instead of his brakes

If you watch his steering wheel he is going right, but his car bounces up on the kerb and heads towards sainz. He also has one wheel on the white line. Sainz broke earlier to guide the McLaren through and gave verstappen nothing more than the limit. I believe he broke earlier as he couldn't carry as much speed. Max was reckless and expects more than the minimum space, sainz was naive that verstappen wouldnt push with his shoulders if he had to, a decision he made on entry before the kerb rubber stamped his choice. FIA like reckless, it's good for ratings. Sainz can moan but the FIA are penalizing others less too so that fighting is more acceptable.

But then there is bad blood between them. From TR and subsequently being a reason he isn't in a Red Bull.

[zoroastar]

It would be interesting to see the telemetry... It would seem as if once he saw the Sainz was ahead, he “released” the brake just to get the car in there and ended up hitting Sainz...

But the reality is that it doesn’t matter at this point, since it won’t change the outcome


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yea i agree. thats why every driver on the grid knows not to pass max. sainz should have given him more room but max would rather do anything than get passed, and it usually results in a collision. its impossible to prove without telemetry but i think that he used the mclaren to slow his car down instead of his brakes

If you watch his steering wheel he is going right, but his car bounces up on the kerb and heads towards sainz. He also has one wheel on the white line. Sainz broke earlier to guide the McLaren through and gave verstappen nothing more than the limit. I believe he broke earlier as he couldn't carry as much speed. Max was reckless and expects more than the minimum space, sainz was naive that verstappen wouldnt push with his shoulders if he had to, a decision he made on entry before the kerb rubber stamped his choice. FIA like reckless, it's good for ratings. Sainz can moan but the FIA are penalizing others less too so that fighting is more acceptable.

But then there is bad blood between them. From TR and subsequently being a reason he isn't in a Red Bull.

yea, after seeing max's onboard, he didnt have much room. he probably could have avoided a crash if he tried a little harder maybe, but he doesnt do that. hopefully we can get both cars home in china. it seems like 1st lap incedents have been on the rise since the cars got bigger last year.

[SmallSoldier]

It would be interesting to see the telemetry... It would seem as if once he saw the Sainz was ahead, he “released” the brake just to get the car in there and ended up hitting Sainz...

But the reality is that it doesn’t matter at this point, since it won’t change the outcome


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yea i agree. thats why every driver on the grid knows not to pass max. sainz should have given him more room but max would rather do anything than get passed, and it usually results in a collision. its impossible to prove without telemetry but i think that he used the mclaren to slow his car down instead of his brakes

If you watch his steering wheel he is going right, but his car bounces up on the kerb and heads towards sainz. He also has one wheel on the white line. Sainz broke earlier to guide the McLaren through and gave verstappen nothing more than the limit. I believe he broke earlier as he couldn't carry as much speed. Max was reckless and expects more than the minimum space, sainz was naive that verstappen wouldnt push with his shoulders if he had to, a decision he made on entry before the kerb rubber stamped his choice. FIA like reckless, it's good for ratings. Sainz can moan but the FIA are penalizing others less too so that fighting is more acceptable.

But then there is bad blood between them. From TR and subsequently being a reason he isn't in a Red Bull.

I don’t think that there was a reason to penalize Max and like most, I believe that Sainz should have left more room or even use the opportunity to make the move stick in the front straight (he had enough pace advantage at that point that he could have done it there)... Now, I’m sure that every other driver would have brake earlier than Verstappen when they saw that the car from behind was already one car or more in front of him by the braking point... Seems that his attitude is of not caring if he destroys his own race before letting someone pass him and that will come back to hunt him in the future (like in Baku with Ricciardo last season... No need to make that second move).

The reality is that he got away with it this time, it could have DNF’ed both cars easily... He just got lucky that they bounced wheels and the only one that got a puncture was Sainz... It could have easily been him.

That’s when I appreciate what Norris said after the race, that he was “too soft” and waited for when he could make the move stick instead of dive bombing some cars that could have ended with him out of the race... That may make him less “spectacular” than Max, but in my book it makes him a better driver (not that it matters, lol)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RonDennis]

yea i agree. thats why every driver on the grid knows not to pass max. sainz should have given him more room but max would rather do anything than get passed, and it usually results in a collision. its impossible to prove without telemetry but i think that he used the mclaren to slow his car down instead of his brakes

If you watch his steering wheel he is going right, but his car bounces up on the kerb and heads towards sainz. He also has one wheel on the white line. Sainz broke earlier to guide the McLaren through and gave verstappen nothing more than the limit. I believe he broke earlier as he couldn't carry as much speed. Max was reckless and expects more than the minimum space, sainz was naive that verstappen wouldnt push with his shoulders if he had to, a decision he made on entry before the kerb rubber stamped his choice. FIA like reckless, it's good for ratings. Sainz can moan but the FIA are penalizing others less too so that fighting is more acceptable.

But then there is bad blood between them. From TR and subsequently being a reason he isn't in a Red Bull.

yea, after seeing max's onboard, he didnt have much room. he probably could have avoided a crash if he tried a little harder maybe, but he doesnt do that. hopefully we can get both cars home in china. it seems like 1st lap incedents have been on the rise since the cars got bigger last year.

He didn't have much room, because there wasn't any room in the first place. He just divebombed on the inside. Just look at the speed and angle Sainz got hit. Verstappen braked too late, hit Sainz, decreased speed thank to the crash and was put in the right direction thanks to the crash. This guy simply can't accept losing places and will do everything in his power, including crashing into people, especially drivers that he doesn't like.

[zoroastar]

yep. unfortunately, i think the new "let them race" attitude is directly because of max's driving style. you know that every single person that watches f1 a lot knew that sainz was going to get bulldozed if he passed max.

[selvam_e2002]

If you watch his steering wheel he is going right, but his car bounces up on the kerb and heads towards sainz. He also has one wheel on the white line. Sainz broke earlier to guide the McLaren through and gave verstappen nothing more than the limit. I believe he broke earlier as he couldn't carry as much speed. Max was reckless and expects more than the minimum space, sainz was naive that verstappen wouldnt push with his shoulders if he had to, a decision he made on entry before the kerb rubber stamped his choice. FIA like reckless, it's good for ratings. Sainz can moan but the FIA are penalizing others less too so that fighting is more acceptable.

But then there is bad blood between them. From TR and subsequently being a reason he isn't in a Red Bull.

yea, after seeing max's onboard, he didnt have much room. he probably could have avoided a crash if he tried a little harder maybe, but he doesnt do that. hopefully we can get both cars home in china. it seems like 1st lap incedents have been on the rise since the cars got bigger last year.

He didn't have much room, because there wasn't any room in the first place. He just divebombed on the inside. Just look at the speed and angle Sainz got hit. Verstappen braked too late, hit Sainz, decreased speed thank to the crash and was put in the right direction thanks to the crash. This guy simply can't accept losing places and will do everything in his power, including crashing into people, especially drivers that he doesn't like.

I agree with you. If you look at the top rated driver in RedBull, they are struggling in other team once they left RedBull. Even Ricciardo mentioned that "it is very easy to drive redbut not renault" It seems Verstappen and Vettel or over rated drivers. We now know how Vettle is. I hope same will happen to Verstappen in future once he left the redbull.

[McL-H]

yea, after seeing max's onboard, he didnt have much room. he probably could have avoided a crash if he tried a little harder maybe, but he doesnt do that. hopefully we can get both cars home in china. it seems like 1st lap incedents have been on the rise since the cars got bigger last year.

He didn't have much room, because there wasn't any room in the first place. He just divebombed on the inside. Just look at the speed and angle Sainz got hit. Verstappen braked too late, hit Sainz, decreased speed thank to the crash and was put in the right direction thanks to the crash. This guy simply can't accept losing places and will do everything in his power, including crashing into people, especially drivers that he doesn't like.

I agree with you. If you look at the top rated driver in RedBull, they are struggling in other team once they left RedBull. Even Ricciardo mentioned that "it is very easy to drive redbut not renault" It seems Verstappen and Vettel or over rated drivers. We now know how Vettle is. I hope same will happen to Verstappen in future once he left the redbull.

You must be kidding. Verstappen is one of the best drivers out there. With or without a Red Bull. Put him in a Mercedes and he’ll give Lewis a run for his money.

[selvam_e2002]

He didn't have much room, because there wasn't any room in the first place. He just divebombed on the inside. Just look at the speed and angle Sainz got hit. Verstappen braked too late, hit Sainz, decreased speed thank to the crash and was put in the right direction thanks to the crash. This guy simply can't accept losing places and will do everything in his power, including crashing into people, especially drivers that he doesn't like.

I agree with you. If you look at the top rated driver in RedBull, they are struggling in other team once they left RedBull. Even Ricciardo mentioned that "it is very easy to drive redbut not renault" It seems Verstappen and Vettel or over rated drivers. We now know how Vettle is. I hope same will happen to Verstappen in future once he left the redbull.

You must be kidding. Verstappen is one of the best drivers out there. With or without a Red Bull. Put him in a Mercedes and he’ll give Lewis a run for his money.

If you look at history, for Vettle all media hyped him while he was with Redbull once he left Redbull he could not justify his talent. seems normal driver for past 5 years at ferrari.

It is similar with Verstappen as well. He is overrated( I am sorry if you are his fan). You will come to know in future.

[selvam_e2002]

Please also remember that Verstappen beaten by Sainz and Ricciardo. I don't trust overrated driver who is coming from RedBull. They are prone to make lot of mistakes. They are not learning from their mistakes while they are with Redbull. Now it is causing vettle a lot.

Now you won't agree. Please watch F1 for next 5 to 10 years, then you will see who is overrated.

[mwillems]

I think sainz would or should have seen Verstappen, so he had the same risk/reward choice and choose to squeeze. There is plenty of room at that corner and Max actually took himself to the absolute track limit to gain the position back.

Had the car not bounced on the Kerb they would both be through. It's one of those things. Racing incident.

Charlie had already let racing happen more when liberty arrived, but I get the feeling that the new guy is letting it slide a bit more. Like max!

[Vasconia]

He didn't have much room, because there wasn't any room in the first place. He just divebombed on the inside. Just look at the speed and angle Sainz got hit. Verstappen braked too late, hit Sainz, decreased speed thank to the crash and was put in the right direction thanks to the crash. This guy simply can't accept losing places and will do everything in his power, including crashing into people, especially drivers that he doesn't like.

This is the problem with Max and I blame RB and FIA for not teaching him what it can be done and what it can´t. He thinks he can brake when he wants because it seems that other drivers are obliged to give him more space or let him pass if he divebombs.

Anyway, Carlos should be more careful with him next time, I know its difficult because he hasn´t a Mercedes so its more difficult to overtake him more clearly before the corner.

[FittingMechanics]

I think sainz would or should have seen Verstappen, so he had the same risk/reward choice and choose to squeeze. There is plenty of room at that corner and Max actually took himself to the absolute track limit to gain the position back.

Had the car not bounced on the Kerb they would both be through. It's one of those things. Racing incident.

Charlie had already let racing happen more when liberty arrived, but I get the feeling that the new guy is letting it slide a bit more. Like max!

Exactly, there is a lot of space in that corner and multiple lines through it. If I am not mistaken, there were multiple passes in that corner, IIRC both Hamilton and Leclerc passed Vettel in that corner. Probably a few more. In all those cases, the passed (Sainz) left much more space for the defending guy, and due to defending guy needing to turn the car more, got passed at the corner exit where the attacked had a better line and more pace. I'm sure that Sainz wishes he was a bit wider, he'd have the pace to get alongside if not pass Verstappen.

In the end, I don't think it's a big mistake, sure, there were points on the table (especially if there was no gearbox issue), but in the end you have to go for the gap if you see it. I am happy that Sainz didn't hesitate to pull a move on Verstappen, even though it didn't end well.

[mwillems]

yea i agree. thats why every driver on the grid knows not to pass max. sainz should have given him more room but max would rather do anything than get passed, and it usually results in a collision. its impossible to prove without telemetry but i think that he used the mclaren to slow his car down instead of his brakes

If you watch his steering wheel he is going right, but his car bounces up on the kerb and heads towards sainz. He also has one wheel on the white line. Sainz broke earlier to guide the McLaren through and gave verstappen nothing more than the limit. I believe he broke earlier as he couldn't carry as much speed. Max was reckless and expects more than the minimum space, sainz was naive that verstappen wouldnt push with his shoulders if he had to, a decision he made on entry before the kerb rubber stamped his choice. FIA like reckless, it's good for ratings. Sainz can moan but the FIA are penalizing others less too so that fighting is more acceptable.

But then there is bad blood between them. From TR and subsequently being a reason he isn't in a Red Bull.

I don’t think that there was a reason to penalize Max and like most, I believe that Sainz should have left more room or even use the opportunity to make the move stick in the front straight (he had enough pace advantage at that point that he could have done it there)... Now, I’m sure that every other driver would have brake earlier than Verstappen when they saw that the car from behind was already one car or more in front of him by the braking point... Seems that his attitude is of not caring if he destroys his own race before letting someone pass him and that will come back to hunt him in the future (like in Baku with Ricciardo last season... No need to make that second move).

The reality is that he got away with it this time, it could have DNF’ed both cars easily... He just got lucky that they bounced wheels and the only one that got a puncture was Sainz... It could have easily been him.

That’s when I appreciate what Norris said after the race, that he was “too soft” and waited for when he could make the move stick instead of dive bombing some cars that could have ended with him out of the race... That may make him less “spectacular” than Max, but in my book it makes him a better driver (not that it matters, lol)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Pretty much agree. But I recall Ricciardo divebombing bottas last year and it was hailed a great move. Similar move from Max I feel, if not a bit more risky.

For Norris I agree also. But public opinion can swing. This track rewards patience, but most do not. Daring overtakes that are judged to within 1% of safe are still needed and he will need to up his game once the rookie tag fades, and I hope he does. But there aren't that many talented overtakes.

Max is one less rush of blood to his head away from being a fantastic overtaker, or driver. Kid just needs to learn better when to keep his powder dry.