Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

[jddh1]

So Big Bad Boy Max wants standard engines for all teams:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0331.shtml

I disagree with this move. If he really wants to have technology developed for the good of the world, he should impose sound/fuel consumption restrictions, and give teams carte blanche to develop any kind of engine they feel like building. If they come up with some kind of design that gives them absolute dominance because of their innovation, then that is good. Pretty much like Renault with turbo engines back in the day. If they had these restrictions then, I don't know if we'd have turbos now. (OK, maybe that's a stretch, but you get my point.)

[WhiteBlue]

The reason the FIA do not want huge competition on the ICE is the cost it causes the non manufacturer teams. They would accept fuel restrictions and unlimited development cost for the engine if the resulting engines would be deliverd for free to any party that isn't prepared to make their own engine. The FIA objective for the manufacturers is to compete on the powertrain trough development of HERS and KERS. this was the reason for the engine freeze. now Renault is making a big stink because they have 25 bhp less than Ferrari and upset the apple cart. I wonder what solution FOTA will propose for the problem. it would be a surprise if they could agree on a sensible rule that adresses the issue.

The immediate reaction of Renault to Ferrari, McLaren and BMW spending money on F1 including the engine is comming today. Briatore says they will increase budget by 30-40%. So much for reducing the cost. the only manufacturer who was serious about cost saving on the engine made a U-turn. there is no way around it. either the ICE is standardized for all or the development is free andf they sell it for a marginal manufacturing fee to the customer teams.

[Conceptual]

The reason the FIA do not want huge competition on the ICE is the cost it causes the non manufacturer teams. They would accept fuel restrictions and unlimited development cost for the engine if the resulting engines would be deliverd for free to any party that isn't prepared to make their own engine. The FIA objective for the manufacturers is to compete on the powertrain trough development of HERS and KERS. this was the reason for the engine freeze. now Renault is making a big stink because they have 25 bhp less than Ferrari and upset the apple cart. I wonder what solution FOTA will propose for the problem. it would be a surprise if they could agree on a sensible rule that adresses the issue.

The immediate reaction of Renault to Ferrari, McLaren and BMW spending money on F1 including the engine is comming today. Briatore says they will increase budget by 30-40%. So much for reducing the cost. the only manufacturer who was serious about cost saving on the engine made a U-turn. there is no way around it. either the ICE is standardized for all or the development is free andf they sell it for a marginal manufacturing fee to the customer teams.

Then open up the Formulae to any engine/turbo/kers and make the engines 1L max.

Fuel efficiency, road relevance, and recovery of wasted energy will all get huge development boosts, the HP would be about 800 with KERS, and the new aero would make the racing even better.

[Scotracer]

The reason the FIA do not want huge competition on the ICE is the cost it causes the non manufacturer teams. They would accept fuel restrictions and unlimited development cost for the engine if the resulting engines would be deliverd for free to any party that isn't prepared to make their own engine. The FIA objective for the manufacturers is to compete on the powertrain trough development of HERS and KERS. this was the reason for the engine freeze. now Renault is making a big stink because they have 25 bhp less than Ferrari and upset the apple cart. I wonder what solution FOTA will propose for the problem. it would be a surprise if they could agree on a sensible rule that adresses the issue.

The immediate reaction of Renault to Ferrari, McLaren and BMW spending money on F1 including the engine is comming today. Briatore says they will increase budget by 30-40%. So much for reducing the cost. the only manufacturer who was serious about cost saving on the engine made a U-turn. there is no way around it. either the ICE is standardized for all or the development is free andf they sell it for a marginal manufacturing fee to the customer teams.

Then open up the Formulae to any engine/turbo/kers and make the engines 1L max.

Fuel efficiency, road relevance, and recovery of wasted energy will all get huge development boosts, the HP would be about 800 with KERS, and the new aero would make the racing even better.

A 1 litre engine with moderate boost would be around 250-280BHP then couple of hundred BHP extra from the KERS (remember KERS and HERS recovery would be significantly reduced if you reduce capacity and power levels) you would still be well below current HP levels.

Next year we'll see about 850BHP on peak KERS and on average 800BHP over a lap.

[WhiteBlue]

we can discuss this issue to the end of time without reaching a solution. the fact of the matter is that really frozen or standardized long life engines will be available at manufacturing cost which is a couple of million € per annum. with unrestricted development this can easily reach 200 mil € per annum. it is a rational policy for the FIA to prohibit the mnanufacturers spending that much on gaining a competitive advantage over customer teams. unless they agree to absorb those cost and not charge them to the customers they will not get permission to compete. from the six engine manufacturers probably none is willing to incur such costs so they try to fudge up the issue by ever new tweaks.

[Conceptual]

Max Mosley said he would like to see each Formula One team use the same engine.

The FIA President told the French sports daily L'Equipe that the move to a common engine would put a lid on costs and also make F1 teams' research more road-relevant.

Mosley, calling teams' current spending on technology "irrational," also said Wednesday he is in favour of the introduction of standard suspensions and gearboxes.

F1 teams are currently in the midst of a mandatory 'freeze' on engine development, with some like Renault complaining that they have fallen behind as their rivals sidestep the spirit of the rules.

"It is not conceivable that we are penalised for another three years," said team boss Flavio Briatore, who is campaigning for a remedy to the situation.

"We will discuss it in FOTA and look for a solution," he confirmed to the Spanish sports daily Marca.

© CAPSIS International
Source: GMM

Isn't the 2.4L, 90degree, V-8 with all of its restrictions pretty much a standard engine?

All they have to do is make all of the changes applied for, and made, available to all of the teams? That way, everyone has access to the same improvements, they all work together to save money, and it would put everyone within 2% of each other in power.

There can only be so many ways to make an engine under the strict regulations. The only thing that differs are the subtle philosophies that underlay ingenuitive applications and approaches to making them a reality. These philosophies could be deduced from the "upgrades" and utilized by all without direct confrontation.

I think that making them all use identical engines is the wrong way to go. I think that with what they already have, there is a level of co-operation that could be exploited to stop the back-door process that is currently in place. If every team knew that every improvement that they made would be available to all teams, they may look less in that direction for a competitive advantage, as well as all of the current improvements made would then be integrated by all to level the field a bit more.

With Vettel winning Monza, could you imagine if Toyota, Renault and BMW were all at the same power level as Ferrari and McLaren??? EVERY race would be a "mixed" grid, with an unpredictable outcome. Isn't that what everyone wants?

Comments?

PS: He wants standard suspension as well! WTF? It is a spec series at that point!

[WhiteBlue]

This issue is discussed already HERE

I suggest that a moderator joins the threads

[woohoo]

The man is a nut.
The faster him and Bernie go kukuchacha the better.


http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0331.shtml

[modbaraban]

The man is a nut.
The faster him and Bernie go kukuchacha the better.

The last time he went doing that there was a big row in ther press, so imagine what would happen when they go together!

[ben_watkins]

The 2009 rear wings look awfull!

[CMSMJ1]

Yes, I think that is a nasty looking thing! I wonder if the front wing will look comically large as that rear looks comically small!

At the end of the day...as long as they are fast I will watch it.. [-o<

[WhiteBlue]

This is what FOTA wanted. They should have accepted 1.2 metric ton downforce limit with more design freedom. They will end up with 85% downforce and 80% drag. In the end the cars will look ugly and passing only marginally better due to remaining turbulence.

[MattF1]

Looks fine to me.

[Saribro]

I wonder why they didn't keep the wing full width but reduced the area where the elements are allowed along with the increased height. It seems like a more straightforward solution.

[wesley123]

The rear wing they are going to use is a CDG (Central Doownwash Generating)wing. It will have the same sizes as williams show but it will have 2 of it and behind the rear wings. I havent heard of a downforce limit, ive only heard of lowering the front wing removing sidepod wings and the cdg wing.