General Honda F1 Topic

[ispano6]

Kvyat PU issues might be due to turning the wick up to see what happens. He topped the top speed charts during that FP2 session. Sakura team will need to ascertain the nature of the failure but there likely won't be any stop gap measures until Spain, unless Honda has a fix that doesn't require restricted elements changes.

[HondaPOD]

Kvyat PU issues might be due to turning the wick up to see what happens. He topped the top speed charts during that FP2 session. Sakura team will need to ascertain the nature of the failure but there likely won't be any stop gap measures until Spain, unless Honda has a fix that doesn't require restricted elements changes.

I don't think so, bacause Kvyat used a new PU in FP2 and the honda issue occured during FP1.

[ispano6]

Kvyat PU issues might be due to turning the wick up to see what happens. He topped the top speed charts during that FP2 session. Sakura team will need to ascertain the nature of the failure but there likely won't be any stop gap measures until Spain, unless Honda has a fix that doesn't require restricted elements changes.

I don't think so, bacause Kvyat used a new PU in FP2 and the honda issue occured during FP1.

Thanks, so maybe that explains his top speed in FP2 and Albon's dicing through the midfield. Fresher PUs or maybe even some slightly tweaked differences from the previous. Knowing Honda if they are going to resort to a PU change then they would take the opportunity to bring in a newer spec or version, regardless how small or unrecognizable it may be. It's also entirely likely it's an identical unit.

[ispano6]

Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504

This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/

[Zynerji]

Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504

This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/

Are the teams using wet cell technology currently?

I know Wayne Pickette (of Intel fame) is working on a technology that holds an electrolyte liquid in the matrix of a hydroscopic-like ceramic core for EV batteries. I was expecting that we were moving from solid-state 18650 cells to a higher density wet cell.

Would love to learn more.

[ispano6]

Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504

This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/

Are the teams using wet cell technology currently?

I know Wayne Pickette (of Intel fame) is working on a technology that holds an electrolyte liquid in the matrix of a hydroscopic-like ceramic core for EV batteries. I was expecting that we were moving from solid-state 18650 cells to a higher density wet cell.

Would love to learn more.

That sounds similar to MIT's flow battery technology from a few years back. Personally, I feel the flow battery concept is genius for production vehicles in that you could likely leverage existing gasoline station and tank infrastructure simply replacing petrol with electrolyte fluid, reducing charge times and reducing the need of chargers. But for Formula 1, Honda's fluoride-ion innovation is intriguing given that solid state batteries require high operating temperatures. The development gains to be had now reside in the realm of the ERS and ES and it will be interesting to see if being in other categories like WEC, Formula E and Super GT will give manufacturers an edge in development.

[gandharva]

Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504

This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/

This all is completely irrelevant to F1 at least up to the point of upcoming regulation changes. Probably even longer. This will be used in road cars and MB absolutely needs those 20% improvement to close the gap to Tesla/Panasonic. Tesla/Panasonic is years ahead of everyone when it comes to road car battery technology.

[kptaylor]

Apologize as I haven't read through the regs, but is battery technology open or are there rules in place regarding material and composition? Could these newer technologies be put in place by Honda only during testing days or in races?

[ispano6]

Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504

This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/

This all is completely irrelevant to F1 at least up to the point of upcoming regulation changes. Probably even longer. This will be used in road cars and MB absolutely needs those 20% improvement to close the gap to Tesla/Panasonic. Tesla/Panasonic is years ahead of everyone when it comes to road car battery technology.

So you are saying ERS and ES hardware is dictated by Formula 1 and theres no area for R&D gains in this department until next regulation change?

[gandharva]

Apologize as I haven't read through the regs, but is battery technology open or are there rules in place regarding material and composition? Could these newer technologies be put in place by Honda only during testing days or in races?

This "newer" technology (MB announcement) is not even state of the art. So why bother using it? Furthermore, the requirements for road cars are very different from Formula 1.

[Marti_EF3]

Some media are reporting that the Honda upgrade will be more agressive maps, focused more on Qualifying modes, and a few more agressive maps for race.

Here from a Spanish site

https://soymotor.com/noticias/red-bull- ... yan-963007

[ispano6]

Apologize as I haven't read through the regs, but is battery technology open or are there rules in place regarding material and composition? Could these newer technologies be put in place by Honda only during testing days or in races?

This "newer" technology (MB announcement) is not even state of the art. So why bother using it? Furthermore, the requirements for road cars are very different from Formula 1.

We're not talking about Mercedes announcement though, we're talking about Hondas/NASA fluoride-ion and Hondas carbon nanotube research. Lithium technology is on its last legs. You'd be surprised how much overlap there is with Honda road and race car technology with R&D. I don't know whether to be proud or embarrassed to say that the Formula 1 engine shares parts with a Civic engine, but not everything that goes into the engine is "bespoke", but I'm sure it meets requirements

[ME4ME]

It will be a very impressive piece of tuning, software and/or chemical engineering to increase maximum output by 20 hp without altering the hardware of the PU. Although that is yet to be comfirmed. Hopefully the knowledge they now have and the new limits that they set themself will have an effect on all Strat settings and bump power up a step compared to the old settings. Red Bull Honda do need more race pace too, it's not like the end of last season where Red Bull Renault was relativly stronger in the race than in qualifying.

Regardless, qualifying in a better position is always helpfull. Secondly Horner seem to alude to another (actually quite obvious) advantage:

“But we see after the pit stops, both Ferrari and Mercedes, it looks like they go back into a qualifying setting, particularly Sebastian [Vettel]. His one lap pace showed he did a 34.8s and then suddenly he is in the 36s. There is one standout lap.”

More power even if just for one lap will increase the chance to pull off an effective undercut.

[godlameroso]

We know engine max power happens when the MGU-H is tasked with providing all compressor energy. This isn't sustainable because it drains the ES through both K and H. Maybe Honda is learning to get more time out of this mode through better energy management, better lubricants, and better fuel.

[yener]

Its not only software. They are going to switch the PU to get more straight line speed.
Means that Max will not get a penalty because this is second engine. The first engine will be sealed and will be used at tracks where engine power is less important compared to high speed tracks.