Making F1 Great Again

[bucker]

Make F1 great again? first... watch a few F1 seasons from the past back to back instead of highlights of a decade and you discover that F1 was always like this, mostly boring races with a few highlights per season. What was different that car's rarely brake down again and, just like MotoGP for instance, the advancement in material and understanding of design gives us cars that can cope with the stresses of the engine (no more bendy aluminum tubs with a big turbo trying to torque it).

When you look at more standard items, going so far to introduce standerd chassis and aero, to attract new sponsors, manufacturers and investors: well... there are a few international racing series that have a system like that: Indycar and DTM. Both of them don't have a ton of manufacturers. F1 has twice as many engine suppliers than Indy.

I think F1 is in a pretty good place at the moment. Teams have never been this close, you have two multiple wc battling it out with two brands with lots of history and a cocky young team that challenge them. As for finances, there is enough money in F1, there is no real reason for cost reduction. Daimler, Philip Morris, Fiat, Renault and RedBull invest a lot. I would go for a different system of cost distribution across teams so you can run a team within 107% without extra sponsors if necessary.

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

[hurril]

Make F1 great again? first... watch a few F1 seasons from the past back to back instead of highlights of a decade and you discover that F1 was always like this, mostly boring races with a few highlights per season. What was different that car's rarely brake down again and, just like MotoGP for instance, the advancement in material and understanding of design gives us cars that can cope with the stresses of the engine (no more bendy aluminum tubs with a big turbo trying to torque it).

When you look at more standard items, going so far to introduce standerd chassis and aero, to attract new sponsors, manufacturers and investors: well... there are a few international racing series that have a system like that: Indycar and DTM. Both of them don't have a ton of manufacturers. F1 has twice as many engine suppliers than Indy.

I think F1 is in a pretty good place at the moment. Teams have never been this close, you have two multiple wc battling it out with two brands with lots of history and a cocky young team that challenge them. As for finances, there is enough money in F1, there is no real reason for cost reduction. Daimler, Philip Morris, Fiat, Renault and RedBull invest a lot. I would go for a different system of cost distribution across teams so you can run a team within 107% without extra sponsors if necessary.

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Then why don't you watch that instead of F1? Why does F1 have to be Formula Twingo?

These debates always have the same basic error. You get bouts of Usain Bolt and you guys don't like that, so you want to force everyone to run the same speed because everything else is Bad.

[Jolle]

Make F1 great again? first... watch a few F1 seasons from the past back to back instead of highlights of a decade and you discover that F1 was always like this, mostly boring races with a few highlights per season. What was different that car's rarely brake down again and, just like MotoGP for instance, the advancement in material and understanding of design gives us cars that can cope with the stresses of the engine (no more bendy aluminum tubs with a big turbo trying to torque it).

When you look at more standard items, going so far to introduce standerd chassis and aero, to attract new sponsors, manufacturers and investors: well... there are a few international racing series that have a system like that: Indycar and DTM. Both of them don't have a ton of manufacturers. F1 has twice as many engine suppliers than Indy.

I think F1 is in a pretty good place at the moment. Teams have never been this close, you have two multiple wc battling it out with two brands with lots of history and a cocky young team that challenge them. As for finances, there is enough money in F1, there is no real reason for cost reduction. Daimler, Philip Morris, Fiat, Renault and RedBull invest a lot. I would go for a different system of cost distribution across teams so you can run a team within 107% without extra sponsors if necessary.

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Yes, I rode a few races in the "360 no Modena" races, with old Volvo 360 cars. hilarious and close. 20 cars with bad brakes trying to be the first into a corner.

spec series are always closer then series with prototypes. Not just F1 but also WEC for instance. This has always been the case, with in history even bigger gaps between the winning teams and the rest of the field.

I think most people forget that it was quite normal in the past that the winning team was a lap ahead of team number two.

[Singabule]

Make F1 great again? first... watch a few F1 seasons from the past back to back instead of highlights of a decade and you discover that F1 was always like this, mostly boring races with a few highlights per season. What was different that car's rarely brake down again and, just like MotoGP for instance, the advancement in material and understanding of design gives us cars that can cope with the stresses of the engine (no more bendy aluminum tubs with a big turbo trying to torque it).

When you look at more standard items, going so far to introduce standerd chassis and aero, to attract new sponsors, manufacturers and investors: well... there are a few international racing series that have a system like that: Indycar and DTM. Both of them don't have a ton of manufacturers. F1 has twice as many engine suppliers than Indy.

I think F1 is in a pretty good place at the moment. Teams have never been this close, you have two multiple wc battling it out with two brands with lots of history and a cocky young team that challenge them. As for finances, there is enough money in F1, there is no real reason for cost reduction. Daimler, Philip Morris, Fiat, Renault and RedBull invest a lot. I would go for a different system of cost distribution across teams so you can run a team within 107% without extra sponsors if necessary.

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Then why A1 gp is bankrupt, without real fans, even with nationality thingy? Proper engine sound, big fat slick on the back, simple aero, no artificial overtake (just NOS boost), small front wheel, no steering adjustment? Because it is simply 70's technology without any Manufacturer support and any marketing value. F1 need to be translated to pinnacle of technology, thats why FIA should limit aero and budget for chasis but not the engine.

[bucker]

Make F1 great again? first... watch a few F1 seasons from the past back to back instead of highlights of a decade and you discover that F1 was always like this, mostly boring races with a few highlights per season. What was different that car's rarely brake down again and, just like MotoGP for instance, the advancement in material and understanding of design gives us cars that can cope with the stresses of the engine (no more bendy aluminum tubs with a big turbo trying to torque it).

When you look at more standard items, going so far to introduce standerd chassis and aero, to attract new sponsors, manufacturers and investors: well... there are a few international racing series that have a system like that: Indycar and DTM. Both of them don't have a ton of manufacturers. F1 has twice as many engine suppliers than Indy.

I think F1 is in a pretty good place at the moment. Teams have never been this close, you have two multiple wc battling it out with two brands with lots of history and a cocky young team that challenge them. As for finances, there is enough money in F1, there is no real reason for cost reduction. Daimler, Philip Morris, Fiat, Renault and RedBull invest a lot. I would go for a different system of cost distribution across teams so you can run a team within 107% without extra sponsors if necessary.

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Then why don't you watch that instead of F1? Why does F1 have to be Formula Twingo?

These debates always have the same basic error. You get bouts of Usain Bolt and you guys don't like that, so you want to force everyone to run the same speed because everything else is Bad.

I watch F1 because it is the best racing series for me, i like the cars i have been on races and the spectacle and energy around it is amazing, but the main part, which is Sunday race is fun to watch if you are fan of Magnussen, Perez or Sainz or someone who finishes around 10th place, because there is always something going on, on the track. First five places are just cars separate by 30s. Where is fun in that? It is same as you were watching one car for one hour driving around.

[bucker]

Make F1 great again? first... watch a few F1 seasons from the past back to back instead of highlights of a decade and you discover that F1 was always like this, mostly boring races with a few highlights per season. What was different that car's rarely brake down again and, just like MotoGP for instance, the advancement in material and understanding of design gives us cars that can cope with the stresses of the engine (no more bendy aluminum tubs with a big turbo trying to torque it).

When you look at more standard items, going so far to introduce standerd chassis and aero, to attract new sponsors, manufacturers and investors: well... there are a few international racing series that have a system like that: Indycar and DTM. Both of them don't have a ton of manufacturers. F1 has twice as many engine suppliers than Indy.

I think F1 is in a pretty good place at the moment. Teams have never been this close, you have two multiple wc battling it out with two brands with lots of history and a cocky young team that challenge them. As for finances, there is enough money in F1, there is no real reason for cost reduction. Daimler, Philip Morris, Fiat, Renault and RedBull invest a lot. I would go for a different system of cost distribution across teams so you can run a team within 107% without extra sponsors if necessary.

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Then why A1 gp is bankrupt, without real fans, even with nationality thingy? Proper engine sound, big fat slick on the back, simple aero, no artificial overtake (just NOS boost), small front wheel, no steering adjustment? Because it is simply 70's technology without any Manufacturer support and any marketing value. F1 need to be translated to pinnacle of technology, thats why FIA should limit aero and budget for chasis but not the engine.

Agree.

[bucker]

Make F1 great again? first... watch a few F1 seasons from the past back to back instead of highlights of a decade and you discover that F1 was always like this, mostly boring races with a few highlights per season. What was different that car's rarely brake down again and, just like MotoGP for instance, the advancement in material and understanding of design gives us cars that can cope with the stresses of the engine (no more bendy aluminum tubs with a big turbo trying to torque it).

When you look at more standard items, going so far to introduce standerd chassis and aero, to attract new sponsors, manufacturers and investors: well... there are a few international racing series that have a system like that: Indycar and DTM. Both of them don't have a ton of manufacturers. F1 has twice as many engine suppliers than Indy.

I think F1 is in a pretty good place at the moment. Teams have never been this close, you have two multiple wc battling it out with two brands with lots of history and a cocky young team that challenge them. As for finances, there is enough money in F1, there is no real reason for cost reduction. Daimler, Philip Morris, Fiat, Renault and RedBull invest a lot. I would go for a different system of cost distribution across teams so you can run a team within 107% without extra sponsors if necessary.

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Yes, I rode a few races in the "360 no Modena" races, with old Volvo 360 cars. hilarious and close. 20 cars with bad brakes trying to be the first into a corner.

spec series are always closer then series with prototypes. Not just F1 but also WEC for instance. This has always been the case, with in history even bigger gaps between the winning teams and the rest of the field.

I think most people forget that it was quite normal in the past that the winning team was a lap ahead of team number two.

But why should one team be ahead for one lap. In Moto GP they have standard electronics. Almost every factory team said, that if common electronics will happen, they will go out of Moto GP. But today we can see that all have stayed and that for the whole race all drivers are racing wheel to wheel. Parts that are not relevant to most fans don't have to be designed by every team, which will result in cost savings and closer racing.

If for example Porsche wants to join F1, they will get with standard parts 70% of the car which they need, other 30% is developed by them for small cost and they can be within top 5 in the first season of racing.

[Phil]

Make F1 great again? Start by changing... nothing. Let it be. It’s already quite good, but everytime teams start to catch up, the rules change again, giving the teams with lots of resources the chance to pull away again.

I also think the distribution of income should be better. Easier tech might also make it more attractive for new entrants with lots of resources to come in and want to compete.

[Singabule]

Because MotoGP can purchase the real spec A from the manufacturer, not spec B, all the same. Hence if the driver confident with the bike, everything possible

[Jolle]

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Yes, I rode a few races in the "360 no Modena" races, with old Volvo 360 cars. hilarious and close. 20 cars with bad brakes trying to be the first into a corner.

spec series are always closer then series with prototypes. Not just F1 but also WEC for instance. This has always been the case, with in history even bigger gaps between the winning teams and the rest of the field.

I think most people forget that it was quite normal in the past that the winning team was a lap ahead of team number two.

But why should one team be ahead for one lap. In Moto GP have standard electronics. Almost everybody factory team said, that if common electronics will happen, they will go out of Moto GP. But today we can see that all have stayed and that for the whole race all drivers are racing wheel to wheel.

The dynamics of MotoGP is a bit different. Due to the nature of motorbikes, they are limited by tires and COG with only small differences possible. In short, when you brake on a motorbike, the center of gravity limits your stopping power, around 1.2G. Also, because of the relative small market compared to cars, all teams use more or less the same important components like brakes (Brembo) and suspension (Öhlins) and of course tires. Also, the Japanese manufactures are/were quite conservative in how to innovate. They were investing in frame and engine while Ducati have a more F1 approach, with, in the past, big leaps in electronics, aero and with some kind of mass damper in the rear now. Standard ECU's and electronics are more political then a true solution. The Japanese teams, also in road bikes, played catch up on electronics with brands like Ducati and BMW. Rider tech, unlike on F1 cars, actually have real world use (for anybody who rode literbikes with the latest functions).

For F1, instead of shouting that the past was better, it's better to look why car's need DRS now and why it's harder to overtake. One of the reasons is the combination of the cars being quite close in performance (harder to overtake when you're only 2 tenths faster) and a better understanding of the use of small vortexes around the car which when disturbed, take away a lot of performance. The other is that F1 shot themselves in the foot with the 2017 cars. Wider, even more vortexes, more downforce so shorter stopping distance which means less overtaking during braking and wider cars. Because overtaking is more difficult, qualifying postion is more important and teams are setting up their cars even more for that one lap and nurture a car trough a whole GP.

So, my solution. Bring back warm up training. If costs are a problem, skip Friday. Saturday morning, set up the car for Q, Saturday evening rebuild the car (regulated, not a complete new car) for Sunday. Get your race setup on Sunday morning and race with a car ideal for your grid postion. Yes it will cost a lot more at first glance, but the big teams will spend it one way or another, midfield teams can mix and choose. How fun it is to have a team battle it out that went for a good race car with a team with a good qualifying car.

[hurril]

Just 10 years ago there where battles on track. Today all is decided in the first half of the first lap. It doesn't have to be multiple overtakes, wheel to wheel battles are more fun, but because cars are so aero complex, this can't be achieved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GTj4kRdao
In the link is Twingo series, with poor engine performance but no aero, all cars are the same. It is actually very interesting to watch, because there is always action on track.

Then why don't you watch that instead of F1? Why does F1 have to be Formula Twingo?

These debates always have the same basic error. You get bouts of Usain Bolt and you guys don't like that, so you want to force everyone to run the same speed because everything else is Bad.

I watch F1 because it is the best racing series for me, i like the cars i have been on races and the spectacle and energy around it is amazing, but the main part, which is Sunday race is fun to watch if you are fan of Magnussen, Perez or Sainz or someone who finishes around 10th place, because there is always something going on, on the track. First five places are just cars separate by 30s. Where is fun in that? It is same as you were watching one car for one hour driving around.

It is the best series but you want to change it into something that looks more like some other?

I can agree with you on the boringness of some aspect. I, too, prefer watching the mid-field battles to watching Bottas put another lone lap in.

[Zynerji]

100% of this can be solved with the most simple rule change imaginable. If the teams simply had to share all of their car data, all of their design data, and all of their test data at the end of each season (summer break might be better as it would be news during a downtime) , teams would not overspend to find one tenth of a second per lap, and year-over-year the field would continuously tighten, but still remain as separate Constructors. A large portion of the team budgets now is reverse-engineering the other team's designs. If that was completely made unessesary, the costs would come down and the racing would get better.

[bucker]

Then why don't you watch that instead of F1? Why does F1 have to be Formula Twingo?

These debates always have the same basic error. You get bouts of Usain Bolt and you guys don't like that, so you want to force everyone to run the same speed because everything else is Bad.

I watch F1 because it is the best racing series for me, i like the cars i have been on races and the spectacle and energy around it is amazing, but the main part, which is Sunday race is fun to watch if you are fan of Magnussen, Perez or Sainz or someone who finishes around 10th place, because there is always something going on, on the track. First five places are just cars separate by 30s. Where is fun in that? It is same as you were watching one car for one hour driving around.

It is the best series but you want to change it into something that looks more like some other?

I can agree with you on the boringness of some aspect. I, too, prefer watching the mid-field battles to watching Bottas put another lone lap in.

What i want is that every race would look like Imola 2005 or 2006, where Schumacher and Alsonso were extremely close all the time. In year 2019 and some years before this is impossible, beacuse aero is complex and tyres get destroyed when you drive behind other car.

[hurril]

I watch F1 because it is the best racing series for me, i like the cars i have been on races and the spectacle and energy around it is amazing, but the main part, which is Sunday race is fun to watch if you are fan of Magnussen, Perez or Sainz or someone who finishes around 10th place, because there is always something going on, on the track. First five places are just cars separate by 30s. Where is fun in that? It is same as you were watching one car for one hour driving around.

It is the best series but you want to change it into something that looks more like some other?

I can agree with you on the boringness of some aspect. I, too, prefer watching the mid-field battles to watching Bottas put another lone lap in.

What i want is that every race would look like Imola 2005 or 2006, where Schumacher and Alsonso were extremely close all the time. In year 2019 and some years before this is impossible, beacuse aero is complex and tyres get destroyed when you drive behind other car.

What I would like is to have a bazillion dollars in the bank and be hung like a donkey. (And for every race to be like what you describe.)

[Zynerji]

I watch F1 because it is the best racing series for me, i like the cars i have been on races and the spectacle and energy around it is amazing, but the main part, which is Sunday race is fun to watch if you are fan of Magnussen, Perez or Sainz or someone who finishes around 10th place, because there is always something going on, on the track. First five places are just cars separate by 30s. Where is fun in that? It is same as you were watching one car for one hour driving around.

It is the best series but you want to change it into something that looks more like some other?

I can agree with you on the boringness of some aspect. I, too, prefer watching the mid-field battles to watching Bottas put another lone lap in.

What i want is that every race would look like Imola 2005 or 2006, where Schumacher and Alsonso were extremely close all the time. In year 2019 and some years before this is impossible, beacuse aero is complex and tyres get destroyed when you drive behind other car.

The tyre war was more of a factor in those races than the aero.