2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[SmallSoldier]

It's no surprise that the 3 top teams in F1 are the 3 biggest spenders. McLaren over the years have under achieved even if you base it on how much they spend alone. It's unacceptable for many reasons, not least economically to be out performed by people who consistently and considerably spend less than you do. Bringing someone in like James Key, who is highly rated and has always had budget constraints shows the team want to start spending smart, while spending big compared to the RP's and the likes. Hopefully, if the budget cap comes, then maybe his talents will become more evident compared to the top teams. Imagine what Mercedes spent, bringing effectively 2 different cars to preseason, not to mention what they'll spend on development through out the year.

I guess we should put things in perspective also... Out of the last 4 seasons, the team underperformed in 3 of them due to the lack of performance and reliability from the Honda engine... Not a lot that they could do from a Chassis perspective to cover the clear performance gap from the engine and compounded by the fact that they were also behind other teams since not only in testing, but through the season they had very few “clean weekends” to learn more about the car and improve upon it (their lack of mileage was one of the biggest issues throughout those 3 years).

Last year, the problem with the car wasn’t a concept problem, but a manufacturing problem... One that can only be attributed to the team and that they have owned... The decision to not pursue a new chassis that will fix the issue and instead focus on this year’s car was the right one in my opinion.

So, the underperformance from the team compared to the likes of Racing Point (Force India) or Haas and the rest of the field wasn’t related to their budget or amount spend through the season.


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[M840TR]

It's no surprise that the 3 top teams in F1 are the 3 biggest spenders. McLaren over the years have under achieved even if you base it on how much they spend alone. It's unacceptable for many reasons, not least economically to be out performed by people who consistently and considerably spend less than you do. Bringing someone in like James Key, who is highly rated and has always had budget constraints shows the team want to start spending smart, while spending big compared to the RP's and the likes. Hopefully, if the budget cap comes, then maybe his talents will become more evident compared to the top teams. Imagine what Mercedes spent, bringing effectively 2 different cars to preseason, not to mention what they'll spend on development through out the year.

I guess we should put things in perspective also... Out of the last 4 seasons, the team underperformed in 3 of them due to the lack of performance and reliability from the Honda engine... Not a lot that they could do from a Chassis perspective to cover the clear performance gap from the engine and compounded by the fact that they were also behind other teams since not only in testing, but through the season they had very few “clean weekends” to learn more about the car and improve upon it (their lack of mileage was one of the biggest issues throughout those 3 years).

Last year, the problem with the car wasn’t a concept problem, but a manufacturing problem... One that can only be attributed to the team and that they have owned... The decision to not pursue a new chassis that will fix the issue and instead focus on this year’s car was the right one in my opinion.

So, the underperformance from the team compared to the likes of Racing Point (Force India) or Haas and the rest of the field wasn’t related to their budget or amount spend through the season.


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Wait...what?

[Ground Effect]

It's no surprise that the 3 top teams in F1 are the 3 biggest spenders. McLaren over the years have under achieved even if you base it on how much they spend alone. It's unacceptable for many reasons, not least economically to be out performed by people who consistently and considerably spend less than you do. Bringing someone in like James Key, who is highly rated and has always had budget constraints shows the team want to start spending smart, while spending big compared to the RP's and the likes. Hopefully, if the budget cap comes, then maybe his talents will become more evident compared to the top teams. Imagine what Mercedes spent, bringing effectively 2 different cars to preseason, not to mention what they'll spend on development through out the year.

I guess we should put things in perspective also... Out of the last 4 seasons, the team underperformed in 3 of them due to the lack of performance and reliability from the Honda engine... Not a lot that they could do from a Chassis perspective to cover the clear performance gap from the engine and compounded by the fact that they were also behind other teams since not only in testing, but through the season they had very few “clean weekends” to learn more about the car and improve upon it (their lack of mileage was one of the biggest issues throughout those 3 years).

Last year, the problem with the car wasn’t a concept problem, but a manufacturing problem... One that can only be attributed to the team and that they have owned... The decision to not pursue a new chassis that will fix the issue and instead focus on this year’s car was the right one in my opinion.

So, the underperformance from the team compared to the likes of Racing Point (Force India) or Haas and the rest of the field wasn’t related to their budget or amount spend through the season.


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Their issues with the Honda engine are well documented, but what did McLaren do to help overcome the problem? You don't need to be an expert to know that quickening the process and developing the engine in terms of power and reliability would have been to put the engine in as many cars as possible to get more data. But what did McLaren do? The opposite. Ron Dennis vetoed Honda supplying a second team, which would have helped massively. For 2016, 3 teams were looking for new engine deals, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Manor. McLaren could have gone with either of the last 2, but they didn't. So, while the engine issues were not their fault, they didn't act like partners. So all in all, they still have a big role to play in the failed years.
By the way, the 2016 car was not great, even though Eric said they would win with a Mercedes in it. They were frequently out qualified by a Toro Rosso on low power circuits. Also, there's a reason why McLaren had a much better chassis in 2017, compared to the midfield.

[Big Tea]

I think this year we are seeing 'NEW Mclaren' (like old Mclaren was). Mclaren of the last few years lost its way and did not 'live in the real world' for want of a better way of putting it.
They felt they were the top team having a temporary problem which would be fixed by next weekend. THIS Mclaren is in the real world and has come to terms of where they stand in the real scheme of things, but are knuckling down and getting things done.

They are still not a top 3 team, and know it, but are working to become one. Rather than having a sense of entitlement and waiting for things to come to them, they are fixing it.
I have slagged Mclaren for this, but really do feel they have turned the corner now and are working for 4th or 5th spot, as a stepping stone for the real return.

[PhillipM]

Their issues with the Honda engine are well documented, but what did McLaren do to help overcome the problem? You don't need to be an expert to know that quickening the process and developing the engine in terms of power and reliability would have been to put the engine in as many cars as possible to get more data. But what did McLaren do? The opposite. Ron Dennis vetoed Honda supplying a second team, which would have helped massively. For 2016, 3 teams were looking for new engine deals, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Manor. McLaren could have gone with either of the last 2, but they didn't.

What?
Mclaren were helping with the talks to supply Manor with an engine, gearbox and rear suspension as a package - that was well into the talks - in fact it was pretty much just awaiting sign off from all parties - with Booth when it was torpedoed by the new owner of Manor getting involved. They were even sharing factory resources already with Manor.
Mclaren were going to provide pretty much the same package to Sauber later in when they were looking for an engine, that also got veto'd by a new management at Sauber coming in. I don't see how you can say that's Mclarens fault.
Okay, halfway through the year Mclaren decided they were ditching Honda too but I'd imagine some of that was the talks stalling to get a B-team going with sauber for development - as far as they were concerned the engine had spent years getting nowhere.

Mclaren even when they had a fundamental problem with engine and/or car the past two years have been kicking out concepts copied up and down the grid, even by front running teams - if you think Racing Point is going to outdevelop Mclaren after Spain when the upgrades start flowing for teams, then I'll quite happily put my money where my mouth is there - it won't happen, I'd bet on it.

[ScottR267]

Does anyone know if Peter Prodromou is still with the team? The management team on the teams website has been updated to include Seidl and Key but no reference to PP.

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/#management

[geogate]

thats not how it works - The automotive division has no impact on the racing division. They dont share staff, they dont share facilities( aside from the canteen). The budget for the racing team is dictated by the shareholders and sponsors - the expansion of the automotive division is dictated by investors.

The automotive division is there to support the racing team. McLaren might not have the resources to fight against the top three, but they are still huge compared to Force India. With the leaders that were put in place by Brown they should be able to make more progress than them, if they lose out the development race they simply failed.

I dont disagree with any of that except the first line. In what way do you think the automotive division supports the race team? Not a single pound will flow from one to the other. Automotive is profitable but also expanding. The money goes back into the business.

[M840TR]

Does anyone know if Peter Prodromou is still with the team? The management team on the teams website has been updated to include Seidl and Key but no reference to PP.

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/#management

He's not management. Seems like they've gotten rid of entire technical department section from website.

[RonDennis]

thats not how it works - The automotive division has no impact on the racing division. They dont share staff, they dont share facilities( aside from the canteen). The budget for the racing team is dictated by the shareholders and sponsors - the expansion of the automotive division is dictated by investors.

The automotive division is there to support the racing team. McLaren might not have the resources to fight against the top three, but they are still huge compared to Force India. With the leaders that were put in place by Brown they should be able to make more progress than them, if they lose out the development race they simply failed.

I dont disagree with any of that except the first line. In what way do you think the automotive division supports the race team? Not a single pound will flow from one to the other. Automotive is profitable but also expanding. The money goes back into the business.

Automotive is profitable, the race team isn't.

[trinidefender]

In reference to everyone's seeming disdain at McLaren's strategy calls as far as Norris goes.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... p/4379258/

I wasn't able to watch the race but this seems like a fair explanation.

[Jackles-UK]

I’m pretty sure it’s not really possible to be a truly “profitable” F1 team these days, if it was then there would be more than 10 teams on the grid. It’s no coincidence that the top teams (Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault, McLaren) are the ones who see their F1 program as an extended part of the marketing strategy for their core businesses and just write off any deficits as an offset cost for this.

[GoranF1]

Sainz probably would've qualified 1 or 2 places higher if not for the yellow flag. His Q2 time was only a tenth down on Norris' Q3 time.

orange car whit Alonso behind the wheel would be on par whit Crashstapen.

hahahahahaha that's the best joke ever .... and stop calling VERstappen Crasstapen, because you are insulting a person who isn't here to defend himself and i can show you loads of videos where Alonso made mistakes himself

and your adoring towards Alonso is gettin annoying, not only with me, but with others aswell, so start participatig as a normal user and not as a Alonso-Groupie with drewl on the sides of his mouth when he sees a pic of Alonso.... (wanted to write something else but that would be 18+ material)

*sorry mods needed to get it of my chest, back to normal

As you are Vettel fan your frustration is completly undersandble.

[Capharol]

orange car whit Alonso behind the wheel would be on par whit Crashstapen.

hahahahahaha that's the best joke ever .... and stop calling VERstappen Crasstapen, because you are insulting a person who isn't here to defend himself and i can show you loads of videos where Alonso made mistakes himself

and your adoring towards Alonso is gettin annoying, not only with me, but with others aswell, so start participatig as a normal user and not as a Alonso-Groupie with drewl on the sides of his mouth when he sees a pic of Alonso.... (wanted to write something else but that would be 18+ material)

*sorry mods needed to get it of my chest, back to normal

As you are Vettel fan your frustration is completly undersandble.

to bad for you i am not a Vettel fan.....

i guess you are just a person, seeking for attention and in trying to get this you annoying others in multiple topics how good Alonso is, and calling a F1-driver, who is't able to defend himself, not by his normal name...
this is just showing your lack of respect towards other drivers (which Alonso do have)
lack of knowledge about other user (so a ego minded person)
and probably lack of knowledge about F1 aswell or what goes around in the world of motorsport in general (which Alonso do have)....

i would suggest you, take a example of your idol (Alonso) and try to work on all these 3 points, and get back to me when you have something meaningfull to add to the topic in which we are.

I hope McLaren will find some more pace so instead of a fight between 3 teams it can become a 4 teams fight although i am afraid (and yes i am biased) Renault might let the team down .....

[M840TR]

Just let it go guys, just let it go...

[Capharol]

will do now M840TR he is on my naughty list