General Honda F1 Topic

[ispano6]

If Redbull and Ferrari are close mercedes at higher speed turns but lost against mercedes at lower speed turns how it can be aerodynamical issue ?

Because high speed corner = small yaw angle (therefore floor sealing is OK), low speed corner = large yaw angle (therefore floor sealing doesn't work). It is a misconception that downforce is not important in low speed turns -- after all that is why all teams run maximum downforce in Monaco.

Still I think, It is logical that what I questioned.
Downfoce is related with speed. They uses higher df settings but it can not produce high df because of low speed at monaco. If someone can achieved to get better df level, so it will make bigger df difference with others when speed is higher and lesser difference when speed is low. If I am correct by now, if Ferrari and Redbull are similar to Mercedes at high speed corners then Mercedes speed at low speed corners must be coming from something else.

Perhaps there's something we can't see about the Mercedes wheel design on the inner rim that aids in larger contact patch for the same or given air pressure. During winter testing, Mercedes were up to something with their tires, where they were painting or covering up the tire side walls and later rinsing them off. Maybe it was a Red Bull spy photo, I can't find it or the caption.

[bigblue]

No doubt you will have seen the latest Renault engine article where Abiteboul says some interesting things - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... e/4394807/.

Without getting into his credibility or wanting to discuss the article in detail in too much (go to the Renault team discussion here viewtopic.php?p=836114&f=15#p836114), it is interesting when teams open up a little and discuss the problems they've faced, rather than playing the straight-laced PR steady progress game. Anyway, I thought these bits were interesting as yardsticks for a manufacturer aiming to get competitive, which obviously means Honda at the moment :

the gain that we were aiming to make over 12 months on the engine side was 50kW, we've done 40 and we're aiming to do another 10 over the course of the season, in the best mode.

These figures are interesting aren't they ? We see some big figures bandied around in speculation from F1 news websites for in-season gains, but I've always been sceptical, so we're looking at 10, maybe 15kw for an exceptional in-season upgrade ? It'll be interesting to see what Honda's next in-season upgrade brings, Abiteboul is claiming parity with Ferrari and Mercedes in the race (!), and the sole Honda claim I've seen is slightly ahead of Renault (perhaps before their power / reliability fix) - hard to tell where everyone is, but are Honda and Renault really at parity with Mercedes and Ferrari (I don't think so), or some small distance, say 10kW or so, behind ? Always impossible to know !

[Bill]

Fia clamped down on some of the doggy things Ferrari and Mercedes were doing i.e. Oil burning or "consumption " so the difference between pu are not that large,at the end of the day they are internal combustion engine a technology that is more than 100 years old they is only so much you can do with it.

[bigblue]

I'm not sure that's completely true. The hybrid elements change things a lot, as do technologies such as stratified charge / HCCI / pre-chamber implementations. Plotting data about peak power and efficiency from 2014 to now for, say, Mercedes would be fascinating, to see how the gains have progressed, and how much they are tailing off after five years of development.

[etusch]

No doubt you will have seen the latest Renault engine article where Abiteboul says some interesting things - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... e/4394807/.

Without getting into his credibility or wanting to discuss the article in detail in too much (go to the Renault team discussion here viewtopic.php?p=836114&f=15#p836114), it is interesting when teams open up a little and discuss the problems they've faced, rather than playing the straight-laced PR steady progress game. Anyway, I thought these bits were interesting as yardsticks for a manufacturer aiming to get competitive, which obviously means Honda at the moment :

the gain that we were aiming to make over 12 months on the engine side was 50kW, we've done 40 and we're aiming to do another 10 over the course of the season, in the best mode.

These figures are interesting aren't they ? We see some big figures bandied around in speculation from F1 news websites for in-season gains, but I've always been sceptical, so we're looking at 10, maybe 15kw for an exceptional in-season upgrade ? It'll be interesting to see what Honda's next in-season upgrade brings, Abiteboul is claiming parity with Ferrari and Mercedes in the race (!), and the sole Honda claim I've seen is slightly ahead of Renault (perhaps before their power / reliability fix) - hard to tell where everyone is, but are Honda and Renault really at parity with Mercedes and Ferrari (I don't think so), or some small distance, say 10kW or so, behind ? Always impossible to know !

Yesterday at sky they were talking like
mercedes best chassis second best Engine
Redbull 2d best chassis third best Engine
Ferrari 3d best chassis best Engine

Base of "Ferrari has best Engine" claim is speed of straights so I am not sure if Ferrari has best Engine but even if so there is not big difference between top two. And a bit more difference between top two to next which is Honda.
We can say bigger part of speed difference in the race and qualifications comes from chassis side but Engine has bigger participation to this gap in Q mode than it does in race. And this Q mode is bad for teams which are not have it. When they try to overtake they can't because of this engine power of top Engines, when they in state of defending position they can not because of engine+drs

[ispano6]

Seeing Toro Rosso up there with a Honda power unit over Ferrari and Mercedes powered cars says something. It's not always about outright power, but drivability and delivery.

[Marti_EF3]

Always has been said that the Honda PU have a great driveability, even in 2017 with Mclaren. And STR seems to have great traction too, they were near the Ferraris and Gasly with a less developed package. RBR needs to find more grip compared to Merc

[etusch]

I read some news at tr motorsporrt that says Ferrari has too much tyre tear and lack of grip. If true maybe it is an opportunity for Toro Rosso to finish third best ( big hope yes ) mercedes looks strong and they have very good tyre life.

[McMika98]

If Merc screw up and get penalties then Tr will be up there for podium if not win. Very far fetched but if John wick can ...
Hopefully quali will be smooth, expecting the midfield to catch up and most teams didn't get a clean run like Albon.

[sn809]

Lets see how things go in Qualifying, its that and pistops that will be the difference in position. I do believe if they keep if clean bith should be in points, how high will depend on the above 2

[shingles]

All four Honda cars in Q3. Nice!!

[Sieper]

On the track where HP means comperatively least. So Hopefully that means Honda has still Some power to find. We need it!

[bigblue]

Glass half full : driveability (and you still need decent power).

[Wouter]

Full report Monaco Qualifying.

https://en.hondaracingf1.com/races/2019 ... qualifying

TOYOHARU TANABE

Today’s qualifying performance puts us in a strong position for tomorrow’s race. It was the first time this year that we have had all four of our cars in the top ten and, for Max it was also his best qualifying result of the year. Well done to all the drivers and to the teams for producing competitive cars. On the PU side, we found the right settings in terms of driveability, which is one of the most important requirements for this track. It will be a long race tomorrow and anything can happen over the 78 laps of this tight street circuit, therefore we must make sure we are ready to deal with any situation that might arise.

3 Max Verstappen Aston Martin Red Bull Racing 1:10.641
5 Pierre Gasly Aston Martin Red Bull Racing 1:11.041
8 Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso Honda 1:11.271
10 Alex Albon Toro Rosso Honda 1:11.653

[etusch]

If Max have not live tyre temp issue (Gasly as well) he can fight for pole for sure. He could just made best at last sector (later ham faster than him) they have to develop but it looks like tyres were biggest problem.