McLaren MCL34

[mwillems]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6UA7zcXsAAok2O.jpg


Can't see anything on the Mclaren that resembles the Merc or Ferrari solutions.

[Maplesoup]

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 4454-1.jpg



Question: The front Top Wishbone seems quite a bit further back than the Lower Wishbone... Can this be part of the problem with lack of front downforce ??

Their lack of downforce is caused by.....a lack of downforce development. They've openly said that they've been focusing on a low drag design and haven't add too much downforce.

So tracks like Monaco they struggle with the front end but on tracks like Baku they enjoy less drag so are good on the straights etc.

They've come out and said that they think they need to change focus and start adding downforce if they want to close the gap to the top 3.

[M840TR]

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 4454-1.jpg



Question: The front Top Wishbone seems quite a bit further back than the Lower Wishbone... Can this be part of the problem with lack of front downforce ??

Their lack of downforce is caused by.....a lack of downforce development. They've openly said that they've been focusing on a low drag design and haven't add too much downforce.

So tracks like Monaco they struggle with the front end but on tracks like Baku they enjoy less drag so are good on the straights etc.

They've come out and said that they think they need to change focus and start adding downforce if they want to close the gap to the top 3.

That pertained to the rear wing. Front-end issues stem from tapered front wing and tyre warm-up issues.

[Maplesoup]

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 4454-1.jpg



Question: The front Top Wishbone seems quite a bit further back than the Lower Wishbone... Can this be part of the problem with lack of front downforce ??

Their lack of downforce is caused by.....a lack of downforce development. They've openly said that they've been focusing on a low drag design and haven't add too much downforce.

So tracks like Monaco they struggle with the front end but on tracks like Baku they enjoy less drag so are good on the straights etc.

They've come out and said that they think they need to change focus and start adding downforce if they want to close the gap to the top 3.

That pertained to the rear wing. Front-end issues stem from tapered front wing and tyre warm-up issues.

Tapered front wing not generating enough downforce. Tyre warm up issues = lack of downforce, Ferrari have the same issue

[diffuser]

Pretty cool and maybe easy to reproduce.

[M840TR]

Their lack of downforce is caused by.....a lack of downforce development. They've openly said that they've been focusing on a low drag design and haven't add too much downforce.

So tracks like Monaco they struggle with the front end but on tracks like Baku they enjoy less drag so are good on the straights etc.

They've come out and said that they think they need to change focus and start adding downforce if they want to close the gap to the top 3.

That pertained to the rear wing. Front-end issues stem from tapered front wing and tyre warm-up issues.

Tapered front wing not generating enough downforce. Tyre warm up issues = lack of downforce, Ferrari have the same issue

Not that simple I'm afraid. There's suspension and all sorts of complexities involved. My point earlier was the tapered FW wasn't conceived to reduce drag but produce outwash.

[Maplesoup]

Not that simple I'm afraid. There's suspension and all sorts of complexities involved. My point earlier was the tapered FW wasn't conceived to reduce drag but produce outwash.

Nope the front wing concept Ferrari and McLaren use pushes air inboard not outboard. The red bull wing pushes air to the outside but makes the car harder to balance as the load is placed far away from the centre of the car.

[Dipesh1995]

Not that simple I'm afraid. There's suspension and all sorts of complexities involved. My point earlier was the tapered FW wasn't conceived to reduce drag but produce outwash.

Nope the front wing concept Ferrari and McLaren use pushes air inboard not outboard. The red bull wing pushes air to the outside but makes the car harder to balance as the load is placed far away from the centre of the car.

Ferrari and McLaren’s concept dominantly pushes the flow outboards on the pressure side of the wing. It is fundamentally about pressure gradients, the air always wants to move through a favourable pressure gradient. Therefore, as the inboard side is more loaded than the outboard i.e the inboard side has a higher pressure than the outboard side, the flow will move outboards on the pressure side. The opposite is true on suction side if that’s the side you were talking about.

Red Bull’s design focuses on upwash which has its benefits of reducing wheel drag/lift and making the wheel wake as compact as possible but relies more upon the bargeboards to create an outwash to push the wake away from the floor etc that Ferrari and McLaren are aiming to maximise from the front wing. Either way, it’s compromise and both designs have their pros and cons with the Red Bull design possibly having an edge in terms of the benefits over the Ferrari/McLaren imo.

[SmallSoldier]

I guess that McLaren also understood last year that is harder to make a car less “draggy” than create more downforce... Previous car (MCL33) was very draggy and they suffered too much to reduce their drag coefficient while maintaining downforce... A more efficient car, should be easier to develop through the season, adding downforce without creating too much additional drag (working the bargeboard sand floor harder).

It seems that teams as McLaren and Ferrari have being also hampered by the new tires, which require more energy (downforce) to get into the “window”... If it weren’t for how hard it’s becoming for them to heat up the tires, their design would probably be the preferred one... Considering that, the teams are now moving towards the summer months, where track temperatures should be higher than at the beginning of the season and should assist them in heating up their tires... The Bahrain issues for teams as Haas (and I also think RBR) was in part due to the high temperatures and their need to compromise their setups to keep their tires from overheating (which could be as bad or more than not having enough heat on them).

Track temperatures shouldn’t be as high in Canada as Bahrain, but the amount of hard braking spots should also benefit those that don’t overheat their tires since that effect will be mostly experienced at corner exit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maplesoup]

Not that simple I'm afraid. There's suspension and all sorts of complexities involved. My point earlier was the tapered FW wasn't conceived to reduce drag but produce outwash.

Nope the front wing concept Ferrari and McLaren use pushes air inboard not outboard. The red bull wing pushes air to the outside but makes the car harder to balance as the load is placed far away from the centre of the car.

Ferrari and McLaren’s concept dominantly pushes the flow outboards on the pressure side of the wing. It is fundamentally about pressure gradients, the air always wants to move through a favourable pressure gradient. Therefore, as the inboard side is more loaded than the outboard i.e the inboard side has a higher pressure than the outboard side, the flow will move outboards on the pressure side. The opposite is true on suction side if that’s the side you were talking about.

Red Bull’s design focuses on upwash which has its benefits of reducing wheel drag/lift and making the wheel wake as compact as possible but relies more upon the bargeboards to create an outwash to push the wake away from the floor etc that Ferrari and McLaren are aiming to maximise from the front wing. Either way, it’s compromise and both designs have their pros and cons with the Red Bull design possibly having an edge in terms of the benefits over the Ferrari/McLaren imo.

You are correct in the high pressure, low pressure stuff. But the front wing acts more as a diffuser than a wing hence why its so important to keep it low to the ground. The Mclaren/Ferrari concept creates low pressure towards the centre of the car, as such accelerating air in that direction or the top and through the slot gaps in the wing, the tapered end near the wheels will create very little difference in actual pressure, this is more of a way of reducing drag due to the increased size of the front wing. It also allows air to escape around the outside of the wheel, but the wing is not actively shaping or working the air to push it round the tire.

I believe that is whats going on, I know alot of commentators etc talk about the wings creating outwash etc, but they are always looking at the top of the front wing. Its actually the sharp underneath the front wing that matters the most if you read this "https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47527705" in the "How are teams solving this problem" section explains it pretty well.

[Dipesh1995]

Nope the front wing concept Ferrari and McLaren use pushes air inboard not outboard. The red bull wing pushes air to the outside but makes the car harder to balance as the load is placed far away from the centre of the car.

Ferrari and McLaren’s concept dominantly pushes the flow outboards on the pressure side of the wing. It is fundamentally about pressure gradients, the air always wants to move through a favourable pressure gradient. Therefore, as the inboard side is more loaded than the outboard i.e the inboard side has a higher pressure than the outboard side, the flow will move outboards on the pressure side. The opposite is true on suction side if that’s the side you were talking about.

Red Bull’s design focuses on upwash which has its benefits of reducing wheel drag/lift and making the wheel wake as compact as possible but relies more upon the bargeboards to create an outwash to push the wake away from the floor etc that Ferrari and McLaren are aiming to maximise from the front wing. Either way, it’s compromise and both designs have their pros and cons with the Red Bull design possibly having an edge in terms of the benefits over the Ferrari/McLaren imo.

You are correct in the high pressure, low pressure stuff. But the front wing acts more as a diffuser than a wing hence why its so important to keep it low to the ground. The Mclaren/Ferrari concept creates low pressure towards the centre of the car, as such accelerating air in that direction or the top and through the slot gaps in the wing, the tapered end near the wheels will create very little difference in actual pressure, this is more of a way of reducing drag due to the increased size of the front wing. It also allows air to escape around the outside of the wheel, but the wing is not actively shaping or working the air to push it round the tire.

I believe that is whats going on, I know alot of commentators etc talk about the wings creating outwash etc, but they are always looking at the top of the front wing. Its actually the sharp underneath the front wing that matters the most if you read this "https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47527705" in the "How are teams solving this problem" section explains it pretty well.

Ah yes, you are correct. I thought you were talking about the pressure side and not the suction side i.e underneath of the wing.

[Maplesoup]

Ah yes, you are correct. I thought you were talking about the pressure side and not the suction side i.e underneath of the wing.

Without vertical elements on top of the front wing it shouldn't be possible to create any meaningful outwash as the aerodynamic elements won't be able to create a large enough pressure differential to work the air in any direction.

They do however still have some vertical elements under the wing that can be used for this purpose. That is why when we talk about air being moved outboard or inboard the top of the wing will be having little effect, its the underneath of the wing that is working and shaping the air which will heavily affect how the air on the top of the wing moves as the low and high pressure areas are created under the wing, not on top of it.

If the wing was just one large continuous piece then the top shape would matter far more, something to watch for in the next regulations if they simplify the front wings any more.

[M840TR]

[M840TR]

[skwdenyer]

So McLaren are using the Williams mirror idea?