2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

[drunkf1fan]

Ricciardo needed to brake too to avoid a collision in Monaco.

Why did he need to brake? He always had a cars width in front of him to drive in to.

He tapped the brake pedal became he got a little sideways and had to back out of it. Trying to pass on the wet part of the track.

Depends on what is considered 'track limits' Vettel was right up on the white line at one point, so if the line is track limits he was defiantly a cars width away with his inside tyres. ( 38 sec here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhX-ZzPhzo ) It was 'marginal' at very best even if they consider the wall as track limits.

I think there are two camps and no one is going to move from the one they are in now. Any talk will not affect the outcome of the race and probably will not change any posters mind. (is fun though)

How is a car with it's wheels on the white line leaving a cars width to the white line? Regardless, the rule is that if a car is alongside, and in this case that means any part is alongside, no have to be halfway up or level, front wing level with rear tires is enough, then you have to leave space for the driver alongside you. Hamilton got alongside while still having at least two wheel on the track (left of the white line on the right), Vettel both pushed him off the track and then continued to close the space. If Hamilton didn't stamp on the brakes then he was being hit by Vettel and the wall.

As for the absurd question of "would it have counted if he passed Vettel as he was off track", yes it would, because if you force someone off the track then you're at fault, if you leave the track alone of your own free will to make a pass, then you're at fault.

In fact double checking the video, Hamilton is alongside before any of his tires are off track at all.

[falonso81]

Now it doesn't need to be "identical", but rather "similar". To be honest, I wish that is actually the requirement, because "similar" is far too vague and leads to endless discussions to what is similar or not.

This is so wrong. You can change say a front wing with different specs and say: Well, its a front wing, it channels air and produces downforce. Seems all so convenient for Merc, its raising suspicion.

[outer_bongolia]

Just to make life easier for everyone, the rule should have been:
The driver will get a 5second penalty if his car leaves the race track, unless he is pushed out or has to do it to avoid a collision.

[nevill3]

I usually go with my first gut instinct when watching the race live and am usually quite accurate in determining what happened by whom and when.

My first reaction was Oooooh that was wrong of Seb to squeeze Lewis off the track, but as a racer his instinct would have been to do exactly as he did. Defend his position and stop Lewis from capitalising from his mistake. The subsequent analysis and dissection of what and where he did things is beside the point. In a split second decision he defended just as he always has and will, just like any other driver would when being challenged like he was. He closed the door and accelerated away, I am sure his main concern was not whether he had returned to the track safely or not just that he was glad to have escaped hitting the wall and then got on with his defense. At a hundred km an hour and cutting across the grass who would be thinking about "safely returning to the track" you would just control the sliding and hope to miss the walls. Once on track and under relatively more control he resumed his race, defending hard and maintaining his lead.

Lewis did nothing wrong at all, he saw a gap and went for it just like a racer should. Seb was in the wrong for defending like he did, he squeezed Lewis beyond track limits and left him no racing room, when he was not entitled to do that due to having been off track. The stewards clearly stated that the penalty was also for forcing another driver to take avoiding actions to prevent a collision as well as re-entering the track unsafely .

Just my take on the incident.....

[Just_a_fan]

why not discuss Mercedes breaking Parc ferme rules in Canada, and radio rules....

this VET penalty is getting boooring.

BTW:
Pastor Maldonado will try to conquer LeMans 24hrs again this year in LMP2 after winning 6hrs of Spa 2019 already.

Mercedes had permission from FIA to change part and talk on the radio to Hamilton. Nice attempt at trying to smear Mercedes.

Maldonado - another guy who couldn't cut it in F1 but doing ok in other formulae. So what?

[drunkf1fan]

Now it doesn't need to be "identical", but rather "similar". To be honest, I wish that is actually the requirement, because "similar" is far too vague and leads to endless discussions to what is similar or not.

This is so wrong. You can change say a front wing with different specs and say: Well, its a front wing, it channels air and produces downforce. Seems all so convenient for Merc, its raising suspicion.

It's not, again, all teams change a bunch of stuff every single race. Changing the aero changes how the car works on a fundamental level. Hulk put on a old spec wing, but it's not about old spec/new spec, the new may have been faster, but the old likely has either more or less downforce.

These rules have been in effect for as long as you can remember. Just because you're unaware of the plenty of changes all teams make before races doesn't mean they don't occur and over reacting and calling bias when the media randomly highlight it happening is about media creating a narrative.

The FIA has always allowed tires that get insanely flat spotted or punctured to be replaced for a race, many times you won't hear about it, but every now and then it happens and the media mention it and everyone jumps into an unroar.

It's not convenient at all. Having a freaking hydraulic leak in the morning of a race and having to rush through replacing the system is not convenient, they have no time to test it's going to work during a race, no team would ever randomly choose to replace it before a race after qualifying without reason.

[Just_a_fan]

Depends on what is considered 'track limits' Vettel was right up on the white line at one point, so if the line is track limits he was defiantly a cars width away with his inside tyres. ( 38 sec here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhX-ZzPhzo ) It was 'marginal' at very best even if they consider the wall as track limits.

How can the "leave a car's width" be from the inside wheels? That means the offending car is occupying the width that is supposed to be left clear!

The white line is the track limit. The offending car must leave a car's width clear from this line, not the wall.

[drunkf1fan]

Lewis did nothing wrong at all, he saw a gap and went for it just like a racer should. Seb was in the wrong for defending like he did, he squeezed Lewis beyond track limits and left him no racing room, when he was not entitled to do that due to having been off track. The stewards clearly stated that the penalty was also for forcing another driver to take avoiding actions to prevent a collision as well as re-entering the track unsafely .

Just my take on the incident.....

Just to be more clear, Vettel isn't entitled to do that full stop, it has nothing to do with going off the track. IF you're going normal speed and haven't left the track if a driver gets alongside you have zero right to push them off the track. Hamilton gets alongside way before he's near the white line, Vettel shoving him even off past the white lines is against the rules regardless of where he's been and what he's done. Then he pushed him even further, fully off track and would have pushed him into the wall if Hamilton didn't slam the brakes on he's being pushed into the wall.

Personally I wish the stewards ignored the re-entering the track part, made it clear from telemetry and footage that it's clear as day that Vettel pushed him off track and towards the wall on purpose and he got a penalty for doing so. It would have blunted a lot of the outrage because really that is what he was penalised for.

[Big Tea]

Depends on what is considered 'track limits' Vettel was right up on the white line at one point, so if the line is track limits he was defiantly a cars width away with his inside tyres. ( 38 sec here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhX-ZzPhzo ) It was 'marginal' at very best even if they consider the wall as track limits.

How can the "leave a car's width" be from the inside wheels? That means the offending car is occupying the width that is supposed to be left clear!

The white line is the track limit. The offending car must leave a car's width clear from this line, not the wall.

What I am saying that if 'a cars width' is a standard size (which it is within limits) then with Sebs wheels on the line there could not possibly be a cars width outside his tyres unless the were his 'other' inside tyres.
His wheels were on the line if not over the line, so I do not see what the argument is other than there was no 'cars width' left.

I understand how it was misinterpreted, I made a useless attempt at humor. My bad.

[notsofast]

Just to make life easier for everyone, the rule should have been:
The driver will get a 5second penalty if his car leaves the race track, unless he is pushed out or has to do it to avoid a collision.

I prefer a variation on this: A 5 second penalty is given each time a car leaves the track. The penalty is given to the driver(s) responsible, as determined by the stewards.

Examples:
Driver A leaves the track on his own: driver A gets 5 seconds.
Driver A leaves the track because driver B pushed him off: driver B gets 5 seconds.
Racing incident: each driver gets 2.5 seconds.

In the Vettel/Hamilton case, Vettel would get 10 seconds; 5 for himself leaving the track and 5 for forcing Hamilton off the track.

[NathanOlder]

Ricciardo needed to brake too to avoid a collision in Monaco.

Why did he need to brake? He always had a cars width in front of him to drive in to.

He tapped the brake pedal became he got a little sideways and had to back out of it. Trying to pass on the wet part of the track.

Depends on what is considered 'track limits' Vettel was right up on the white line at one point, so if the line is track limits he was defiantly a cars width away with his inside tyres. ( 38 sec here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhX-ZzPhzo ) It was 'marginal' at very best even if they consider the wall as track limits.

I think there are two camps and no one is going to move from the one they are in now. Any talk will not affect the outcome of the race and probably will not change any posters mind. (is fun though)

Hold on..... Im talking about Monaco 2016 in response to lm10. The Canada incident vettel left 0 space. Not even an inch.

[roon]

Solution:

[ringo]

The rules are the rules just like the technical regulations are the rules for the engineers to comply with.
The best teams make the the best cars to the regs and the best drivers make the best of the sporting rules.
Vettel just failed simple. Even if the rules were softened there will always be other rules that will catch him off gaurd if he allows hamilton to get into his head over a stint.
Everytime these 2 are on a final stint and hamilton is within 5 seconds its almosy guaranteed vettel will break. So changing the rules will not make a different. He will continue to consider what is illegal and do it. As this is the only way to suprise hamilton; something outside of the rules has to be done on track. So yea next race. I would like to see if Vettel learned anything. The frrrari should be quick there.
If he hasnt learned i would much prefer if leclerc wins there.

[roon]

...this is the only way to suprise hamilton; something outside of the rules has to be done on track.

When you've had no competition for six seasons what else is going to surprise?

[GPR-A]

...this is the only way to suprise hamilton; something outside of the rules has to be done on track.

When you've had no competition for six seasons what else is going to surprise?

Misinformed and confused (as to what competition means) fans I guess. Why would otherwise anyone would think there was no competition. First between two team mates (2014-16) and then between two teams (2017-18).