2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

[LM10]

One additional piece of new evidence Mercedes has given is the telemetry for Hamilton's car showing how much he had to brake in order to avoid Vettel.

lol, cunning, that puts a bit of pressure on Ferrari to show Seb's telemetry, and that won't be good for him

Binotto already told that they’re ready to show their telemetry data.

[dans79]

Binotto already told that they’re ready to show their telemetry data.

where?

[bcoxa]

One additional piece of new evidence Mercedes has given is the telemetry for Hamilton's car showing how much he had to brake in order to avoid Vettel.

I thought the whole point was they had all that anyway.

[izzy]

Binotto already told that they’re ready to show their telemetry data.

Oh, fair play, well Mattia is a good guy, but the telemetry is going to show some throttle on while Seb's going across the grass isn't it

And the velocity coming back onto the track is the physics of why he ended up right across the track next to the wall.

Apart from the steering, and the stewards said Seb opening the steering while the car was stable and pointing towards the wall was part of their decision, so if they ask for the steering telemetry, which is quite likely, that's more doom

edit someone on Reddit took these traces,made from the F1 app:

so if they're right (the braking is binary for example) Seb wasn't on the throttle until just as he left the grass, and then it was only 25%, but that was enough to skip sideways, and he didn't really lift. so if the real telemetry is like this it shows he wasn't trying too hard to stay out of Lewis' way!

[TAG]

One additional piece of new evidence Mercedes has given is the telemetry for Hamilton's car showing how much he had to brake in order to avoid Vettel.

I thought the whole point was they had all that anyway.

That's what I thought, the stewards looked at Hamilton's car but it's not clear whether they looked at the car camera feed or the actual telemetry. Telemetry or not, no one's mind is going to change because people have their opinions... what do they need data for?

[LM10]

Binotto already told that they’re ready to show their telemetry data.

where?

I read the article again. Let’s say he gave the sign that they would be open to share their data.

For our part, considering the images and data we have available, we are convinced that there were no misconduct, but Sebastian made a mistake on the way out but I think he only tried to recover the car, slow down, and get back on track more safely.

For our part we are collecting all available data, trying to bring new elements to eventually have a different decision. We will see in what form and in what way, but surely we are working hard.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/binot ... o/4473622/

[TAG]

Binotto already told that they’re ready to show their telemetry data.

It's going to have to be one hell of a telemetry log because the CCTV cameras on track show Vettel turning his head looking into the mirror, then making the secondary steering input after he'd already corrected the oversteer in order to crowd Hamilton.

[dans79]

I don't know what they hope to prove, because the rule he violated doesn't take intent into question. In other words, it doesn't matter if his car was out of control or not.

27.3 Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not
deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason.

Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and,
for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part
of the track but the kerbs are not.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re‐join, however, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race
director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he
gained by leaving the track.

[Phil]

I thought Palmer made an excellent point on his BBC article:

By the letter of the law, Vettel was guilty.

He either crowded another driver off the circuit - Hamilton into the wall on the exit of Turn Four, to the point where the Mercedes driver had to anchor on the brakes to avoid a collision.

Or, as his defence said, his natural momentum took him across the full width of the circuit. But in that case he is guilty of rejoining the circuit in an unsafe manner, as he was not in full control of his car, to the extent that he ran Hamilton off the road in an unsafe manner.

One of these scenarios has to be correct.

If he was forced to run all the way into Hamilton, that's not safe. If he wasn't, then he deliberately did it, and that's not fair and deserves a penalty.

You can't have it both ways, and you need to have it both ways to avoid the penalty here.

Link: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

[dans79]

You can't have it both ways, and you need to have it both ways to avoid the penalty here.

Link: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

Yep, Every one that I've seen argue against the penalty is basically using one of the following lines.

1. he didn't mean to - Most sporting rules (any sport) don't care abut intent, only cause and effect.
2. It's bad for the show - rules aren't supposed to take the show into account (thank god)
3. it was harsh - most penalties are, and modern F1 penalties are a lot more lenient than they were a few years ago.

[diffuser]

You can't have it both ways, and you need to have it both ways to avoid the penalty here.

Link: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

Yep, Every one that I've seen argue against the penalty is basically using one of the following lines.

1. he didn't mean to - Most sporting rules (any sport) don't care abut intent, only cause and effect.
2. It's bad for the show - rules aren't supposed to take the show into account (thank god)
3. it was harsh - most penalties are, and modern F1 penalties are a lot more lenient than they were a few years ago.

The rule could be changed to him taking the 5 sec P or give up the position. Giving up the position would have made it more interesting and resolves the "bad for the show" statement.

[dans79]

The rule could be changed to him taking the 5 sec P or give up the position. Giving up the position would have made it more interesting and resolves the "bad for the show" statement.

That's already part of the existing rule that I quoted.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re‐join, however, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race
director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he
gained by leaving the track.

[roon]

Ferrari not WCC nor WDC contenders this year. A win here or there, in or out of the courts, won't change that. The telemetry has been available since the incident--can't see what grounds the review is for, other than to back the driver. Unless there are obscure rules to reference or semantics to play with.

Maybe they can make a case saying Hamilton did not take sufficient avoiding or braking action when approaching the off track vehicle. Being an uncontrolled track re-entry from grass, Ferrari could say that Hamilton approached the accident too quickly. Is there any rule stating similar? Or do flags need to be in use for such an argument?

[erudite450]

Anyone saying that the rules are too harsh simply has amnesia or is a new fan of the sport. Just a few years ago, drivers were given drive-through penalties for minor misdemeanours - incidents that would only incur 5- or 10- sec time penalty. Vettel, for instance, got a 5-second time penalty for causing an avoidable collision during the last French GP. A few years ago that would have been a drive-through. Max pretty much got away with ruining Bottas' race in Monaco. I was watching a replay of the 2013 Hungarian GP and I was surprised that Grosjean got a drive-through penalty for pretty much going for a legitimate overtake a running a few centimetres wide. Such an incident would have earned him only a 5-second time penalty if it happened now but somehow F1 is supposedly in its worst state.

[NL_Fer]

10s stop and go -> drive trough -> 5s time penalty