2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

[zac510]

Anyone saying that the rules are too harsh simply has amnesia or is a new fan of the sport. Just a few years ago, drivers were given drive-through penalties for minor misdemeanours - incidents that would only incur 5- or 10- sec time penalty. Vettel, for instance, got a 5-second time penalty for causing an avoidable collision during the last French GP. A few years ago that would have been a drive-through. Max pretty much got away with ruining Bottas' race in Monaco. I was watching a replay of the 2013 Hungarian GP and I was surprised that Grosjean got a drive-through penalty for pretty much going for a legitimate overtake a running a few centimetres wide. Such an incident would have earned him only a 5-second time penalty if it happened now but somehow F1 is supposedly in its worst state.

This is true, the structure around licence demerit points, fines and in-race penalties is much much better than it was 10+ years ago. Back then the race stewards weren't even ex-racing drivers!

In the same way that all new airplane crashes are getting weirder and shocking - because the most common type of crash can now be prevented with technology and process based on experience - the most common and mundane F1 violation/penalties have been 'solved' in the same way, but future ones will also be weirder and more shocking.

[Tommy Cookers]

... In the same way that all new airplane crashes are getting weirder and shocking ...
.... the most common and mundane F1 violation/penalties have been 'solved' in the same way, but future ones will also be weirder and more shocking.

agreed
and wasn't this in the minds of those who in this case advocated 'play on' rather than penalise ? - 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'

the teams will be looking into potential that in some future case we spectators will perceive as 'unforeseen' consequences

[NathanOlder]

There's a piece on autosport yesterday about Ferrari's review.

But what makes me sick when reading it, is when something as big and as knowledgeable as Autosport write and publish crap like this.

The last sentence to be exact.



Vettel didn't gain any lasting advantage as Hamilton ended up 1.7s closer than before the incident.

Hamilton was LESS THAN A SECOND BEHIND VETTEL WHEN VETTEL WENT OF YOU F*****G IDIOTS!!!

Stop posting absolutel nonsense, and how dare they have the cheek to ask for people to pay for thier articles!!!!!

[Phil]

That is pretty damning. If Hamilton was actually that far behind, not giving a penalty would have been entirely feasable and justifiable.

[FrukostScones]

Is this Ferrari's reasoning or Autosport opinion?

No matter what, it is deception.

[bosyber]

I have to agree that much of the motorsport, and Sky, coverage of this has been disappointingly one-sided, and on the side of not-the-FIA, nor common sense; bbc, as they did on the radio broadcast, are a bit more measured. Dutch media seems somewhat more measured,though tending towards nostalgia (and Verstappen, though that penalty was bad for them too, clearly). Haven't really followed German media on this (but Bild and allied stuff is always pro-Vettel, and often Ferrari); RTL were, during the race, measured, though I did hear a podcast with seemingly mainstream opinion that the penalty was justified, but the rule is bad (which isn't entirely crazy, though in my opinion, what other solution would there be, naivety that drivers will behave?).

But, saw this morning (via google's news thingy on my phone which insists I want usually way old, translated stuff in Dutch, but this time it was something new!) that italian motorsport.com (in Italian, I used google translate) had old F1 driver Tarquini (not a Ferrari guy) who said common sense and the current rules said it was a clear penalty for Vettel; except that it was a Ferrari driver, so common sense went out the window.

edit:
So, for me, at the end of the race I was quite bummed (though felt HAM likely won it on merit, with Vettel throwing it away again, wanted to have the overtake on track), but as we got to read the stewards report, and some factual analysis; indicating that Vettel likely had control, and then indeed (even if subconsciously) moved to squeeze HAM, I am now okay with the penalty.

The media lack-of-factualness (and Vettel echoing Baku 2017's denial) around it only increases my idea that, as Tarquini says, a lot of people refuse to admit that their emotions of finally having someone else than a Merc/HAM win, and the 1st Vettel win since Spa last year, made them lose sight of common sense, and apparently, their eyes.

[diffuser]

The rule could be changed to him taking the 5 sec P or give up the position. Giving up the position would have made it more interesting and resolves the "bad for the show" statement.

That's already part of the existing rule that I quoted.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re‐join, however, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race
director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he
gained by leaving the track.

Right but they didn't give them that option.

[Just_a_fan]

That is pretty damning. If Hamilton was actually that far behind, not giving a penalty would have been entirely feasable and justifiable.

Hamilton was inches from Vettel precisely because Vettel crossed the track and put his car in the way to prevent the overtake. Hamilton was forced the brake hard to avoid contact. Had there been contact, Vettel would have been penalised for causing a collision. Of course, he'd have ruined Hamilton's race so would probably have been happy with that outcome.

[Phil]

I know mate. I was replying within the context of what Autosport reported that if Hamilton had been that far behind (1.7s), then not penalizing Vettel would have actually been reasonable.

I believe we all know however that Hamilton was quite a bit closer though, hence the different circumstances.

Guess i could have been clearer, but given my numerous posts in this topic regarding the penalty, i thought that was a given.

[ringo]

For me the rules are fine. No need to be reviewed. I find the rules as they are have a really good balance.
Only the gearbox penalties i feel are too much.
But racing rules are very balance and they encourage safety. Had vettel floored the gas and crashed into hamilton and sending both into the wall and Hamilton car got on fire and there was serious injury etc. etc. people will realize why the rules are how they are.

[RZS10]

There's a piece on autosport yesterday about Ferrari's review.

But what makes me sick when reading it, is when something as big and as knowledgeable as Autosport write and publish crap like this.
[...]
Stop posting absolutel nonsense, and how dare they have the cheek to ask for people to pay for thier articles!!!!!

They also pose the question whether Hamilton actually had to leave the track and that no camera angle would show he did.

"Secondly, there may well be some scrutiny requested about whether Hamilton actually left the circuit during the incident. [...] it is not crystal clear from video footage and photographs whether or not all of Hamilton's wheels were outside the white lines that marked the edge of the circuit during the moments when Vettel was deemed to be moving across.

Ferrari's view may well be that it does not believe Hamilton ever actually officially left the circuit."

Eh .......... ???

Is this Ferrari's reasoning or Autosport opinion?

It's nothing but pure speculation of what arguments Ferrari may have - so all just a bunch of bull_

Ever since motorsport / autosport / motorsport-total got merged the quality of their ""journalism"" got even worse than it was before, more clickbait, more making articles out of tweets or throwaway lines in some interview ... just straight up trash

[NathanOlder]

There's a piece on autosport yesterday about Ferrari's review.

But what makes me sick when reading it, is when something as big and as knowledgeable as Autosport write and publish crap like this.
[...]
Stop posting absolutel nonsense, and how dare they have the cheek to ask for people to pay for thier articles!!!!!

They also pose the question whether Hamilton actually had to leave the track and that no camera angle would show he did.

"Secondly, there may well be some scrutiny requested about whether Hamilton actually left the circuit during the incident. [...] it is not crystal clear from video footage and photographs whether or not all of Hamilton's wheels were outside the white lines that marked the edge of the circuit during the moments when Vettel was deemed to be moving across.

Ferrari's view may well be that it does not believe Hamilton ever actually officially left the circuit."

Eh .......... ???
https://i.imgur.com/S46kXwf.png

And saying did he even leave the track makes it sound like they are saying its ok to leave 1 inch of white line for Hamilton. Im pretty sure its 1 car width you have to leave, not 1 bloody inch!! What a bunch of cowboys.

[NathanOlder]

Maybe ferrari feel hard done by as they got away with the same thing at turns 2 and 3 in Spain this year.

Vettel ran wide on turn 1, rejoined in 2 and pushed leclerc completely off the track on the exit.

Leclerc also then pushed Gasly completely off at turn 3.

That all of course was on lap 1 at turn 1 - 3 where the stewards are a little more lenient and rightly so.

[carisi2k]

The problem with your argument is that all the cars use the space all the way out to the wall on the exit of that turn and so you can argue that he did leave 1 car space of width. I would also argue that Sebastian wasn't as in control of his car as people think he was. I would also argue if they are going to give that penalty to Sebastian at Canada that Lewis should also have been given a similar penalty at Monaco when max attempted his pass. You could easily argue that lewis did not rejoin the track safely at the chicane. Lewis was being naughty in putting his car where he did as well. He could have made the pass if he slowed and took the inside line but instead relied on a stewards decision to get him the victory.

[carisi2k]

I would also argue that many people seem to have forgotten how slippery the circuit was and certainly the grass wouldn't have provided any grip to allow seb to position his car in a safe manner. Seb was probably lucky he didn't go in to the wall.