2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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carisi2k wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 11:29
The problem with your argument is that all the cars use the space all the way out to the wall on the exit of that turn and so you can argue that he did leave 1 car space of width. I would also argue that Sebastian wasn't as in control of his car as people think he was. I would also argue if they are going to give that penalty to Sebastian at Canada that Lewis should also have been given a similar penalty at Monaco when max attempted his pass. You could easily argue that lewis did not rejoin the track safely at the chicane. Lewis was being naughty in putting his car where he did as well. He could have made the pass if he slowed and took the inside line but instead relied on a stewards decision to get him the victory.
The problem with your argument is the 1 car width you must leave is to the track limit which is the white line and NOT the wall.
And it doesn't matter at all whether Seb was in control or not. You must always leave a cars width if a car is alongside. The only time people get away with something like this is on the opening lap.

As for the Max Ham incident in Monaco, Max had plenty of room to his left when they made contact so Lewis left enough space. Max was also the one out of control with both front wheels locked up at the point of contact. As foe rejoining the track. Lewis did it safely as he had no car alongside him at all when rejoining and continuing.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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carisi2k wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 11:34
I would also argue that many people seem to have forgotten how slippery the circuit was and certainly the grass wouldn't have provided any grip to allow seb to position his car in a safe manner. Seb was probably lucky he didn't go in to the wall.
Seb was lucky he didn't go in to the wall so Lewis had to suffer for it??

Seb was also lucky to finish 2nd then??
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Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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Ferrari needs to install some big mirrors at the entrance of Maranello. This defending of their own mistakes (both drivers and team) is getting out of hand and stops them from beating Mercedes.
Just a few days ago I read a quote from Wolf, that Canada wasn't good enough (referring to the problems they had before the race with the cars).
To become better, you first have to be tough on yourself.

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dans79
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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Jolle wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 12:06
Ferrari needs to install some big mirrors at the entrance of Maranello. This defending of their own mistakes (both drivers and team) is getting out of hand and stops them from beating Mercedes.
Just a few days ago I read a quote from Wolf, that Canada wasn't good enough (referring to the problems they had before the race with the cars).
To become better, you first have to be tough on yourself.
they should probably also pass out a copy of the current rule book to everybody.
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sosic2121
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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dans79 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 14:15
Jolle wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 12:06
Ferrari needs to install some big mirrors at the entrance of Maranello. This defending of their own mistakes (both drivers and team) is getting out of hand and stops them from beating Mercedes.
Just a few days ago I read a quote from Wolf, that Canada wasn't good enough (referring to the problems they had before the race with the cars).
To become better, you first have to be tough on yourself.
they should probably also pass out a copy of the current rule book to everybody.
They should also note when those rules are enforced strictly, and when they are not very important...

roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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NathanOlder wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 11:55
carisi2k wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 11:34
I would also argue that many people seem to have forgotten how slippery the circuit was and certainly the grass wouldn't have provided any grip to allow seb to position his car in a safe manner. Seb was probably lucky he didn't go in to the wall.
Seb was lucky he didn't go in to the wall so Lewis had to suffer for it??
Gaining 1.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.

ringo wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 04:13
Had vettel floored the gas and crashed into hamilton and sending both into the wall and Hamilton car got on fire and there was serious injury etc. etc. people will realize why the rules are how they are.
Yes, yes, and let's not forget the wall might have transferred impact energy to ground, triggering earthquake, chasm opening beneath grandstands and absorbing Canadians. The ground hogs could have been part of extremist group and equipped with explosives, Vettel's driving over their grass could have angered them and then kaboom no more F1 drivers. All the old F1 drivers would have died from grief of losing Vettel, and the rest of the people of earth would have died of losing Hammy. Basically the world could have ended, its a good thin Hamilton hit thd brakes, he avoided catastropje for 7 b people. National hero a saint makes him winer this year in my book regardless of having best car again
Last edited by roon on 20 Jun 2019, 17:34, edited 1 time in total.

roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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double post
Last edited by roon on 20 Jun 2019, 17:35, edited 1 time in total.

pb6797
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:05
NathanOlder wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 11:55

Seb was lucky he didn't go in to the wall so Lewis had to suffer for it??
Gaining 1.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.
That was an error in the Autosport article please stop repeating it, it won’t make it true. Hamilton had DRS so was within one second - in fact the Formula 1 website write up gives the figure as 0.7 seconds on lap 48

roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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pb6797 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:27
roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:05
NathanOlder wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 11:55

Seb was lucky he didn't go in to the wall so Lewis had to suffer for it??
Gaining 1.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.
That was an error in the Autosport article please stop repeating it, it won’t make it true. Hamilton had DRS so was within one second - in fact the Formula 1 website write up gives the figure as 0.7 seconds on lap 48
Gaining 0.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.

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dans79
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:36
pb6797 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:27
roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:05


Gaining 1.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.
That was an error in the Autosport article please stop repeating it, it won’t make it true. Hamilton had DRS so was within one second - in fact the Formula 1 website write up gives the figure as 0.7 seconds on lap 48
Gaining 0.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.
If it wasn't for the block/squeeze, the gap would have a negative in front of it. So, that is suffering weather some people think it is or not.
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roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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dans79 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 18:06
roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:36
pb6797 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:27


That was an error in the Autosport article please stop repeating it, it won’t make it true. Hamilton had DRS so was within one second - in fact the Formula 1 website write up gives the figure as 0.7 seconds on lap 48
Gaining 0.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.
If it wasn't for the block/squeeze, the gap would have a negative in front of it. So, that is suffering weather some people think it is or not.
Blocking faster cars is legal aka racing. Recall entirety of Senna-helmet's Monaco race. Multiple direction changes are explicitly forbidden but that didn't happen here--a continuous move to the right after the penalty-invoking track re-entry.

Vettel was penalized for sliding onto the tarmac from grass--not defending nor driving his optimal line.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 18:14


Vettel was penalized for sliding onto the tarmac from grass--not defending nor driving his optimal line.
No, he was penalised for going all the way across the track in a manner that required another driver to take avoiding action. If Vettel had just "slid on to the tarmac" without then driving across to the racing line in a deliberate manner, then he wouldn't have been penalised. It was Vettel's own actions at the end of the incident that got him the penalty.
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:36

Gaining 0.7 s on a competitor isn't suffering.
I recommend actually watching the race again; when you'll do, you'll see that the required avoiding measures Hamilton had to take cost him, as after that maneuver, the gap increased to beyond to what it was prior to Vettel going off track. Hamilton also reported that due to having to brake that hard, his tires lost performance.
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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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He was penalized for both, coming back on track in an unsafe manner and forcing Hamilton off the track https://www.fia.com/file/82120/download

It wouldn't be that hard to at least try to stick to facts - tomorrow we'll know whether the decision will stand

roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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Just_a_fan wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 18:27
roon wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 18:14


Vettel was penalized for sliding onto the tarmac from grass--not defending nor driving his optimal line.
No, he was penalised for going all the way across the track in a manner that required another driver to take avoiding action. If Vettel had just "slid on to the tarmac" without then driving across to the racing line in a deliberate manner, then he wouldn't have been penalised. It was Vettel's own actions at the end of the incident that got him the penalty.
For both actually. Incident report here: viewtopic.php?p=840411#p840411

Ferrari can appeal both with following approach:

-reentry not unsafe due to no direct proximity to any other cars
-defending/optimal line hold =/= forcing car off track; Ham had three choices; brake & follow, brake & go inside, brake & go outside. He chose the latter, but the door was closed on him.

Fanchildren remember (not directed at you JaF): this is supposition. I'm not Ferrari, this is guessing as to the logic the contesting team will use.
Last edited by roon on 20 Jun 2019, 18:49, edited 2 times in total.