Fernando Alonso had all the cards on his hands and controlled the race simply, staying out of trouble and putting in a great pace. The title contenders ruined their chances for this race in the first corner. Kubica comes in second, just ahead of Raikkonen. Felipe Massa gets a single point.
Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
shotzski wrote:I cannot believe this! People were saying that Mclaren are cheats, Lewis is a dangerous driver. But look at what Massa did: he overtook Lewis and shunted him literally, and he's not even on the track. Wasn't that supposed to be illegal? Yes he was on the inside of the corner, but his car was also off track while fighting with Lewis. Now whose being a danger on track, banging on everyone? Ferrari should lose this championship
I agree with you, this sint the first time that ferrari is being dangerous, but no1 talks about it because the car is red.
why dont they just have a rule saying "every driver that overtakes a Ferrari will get a drive-through and will be banned for the rest of the season"
that would make things a lot easier.
Bourdais definately deserves another shot next year he seems to be getting a proper handle on the car now, just like Heidfield, it's not his direct fault the new car didn't suit his style. The accident was Massa's fault but I want to see how the officials word their decision .
As for pitlanegate I'd say that again the FIA need to clear that up as at the start you had a number of cars go in the pitlane when entering the first corner (both McLaren's etc). Maybe there should be a change the line half way down where it becomes a series of dashes, indicating that cars exiting the pitlane still have to stay in the boundaries of the lane but if it's clear cars already on track are clear to "race" on this section of track...
Going back to Massa's clash with Hamilton, it was a silly move but once Massa was off track there was no way he could avoid Lewis as F1 cars don't tend to brake too well on grass. Same with Lewis's 1st corner incident, it was a silly (inexperienced) error. Someone needs to be talking in his ear at the start "To finish first, first you must finish!" "Pride comes before a fall" "Championships are not won in turn 1"
Last edited by axle on 12 Oct 2008, 12:56, edited 1 time in total.
We all agree Lewis fluffed the start and should have opted to stay behind Kimi rather than attack and attempt a re-pass from a long long way away. IMO he shouldn't have been penalised at that stage though. We've seen such incidents all season with no penalties for other drivers.
Massa spinning Lewis at the start should have resulted in a longer penalty for Massa, as it pushed Lewis to the VERY BACK of the grid due to cars screaming past on lap one. If such a spin occurred later in the race (e.g. Massa / Bourdais) it wouldn't have cost Lewis so much time. Without the spin, Lewis could have secured points, possibly more than Massa and maybe even a podium.
I believe Lewis only received a penalty for the start incident because Massa received one for spinning Lewis.
The incident with Massa and Bourdais and the subsequent decision to penalise Bourdais leaves me speechless and adds further fuel to the whole FIA love Ferrari theory. I don't believe anyone should have been penalised for that, but if you were going to, then clearly Massa should have been for driving into Bourdais.
The Massa / Webber incident is another failure of the FIA to penalise real dangerous driving and not merely "racing incidents". Massa and Webber should have both been penalised. Webber for "forcing Massa off the race track" (precedent set in lap one!) (this guy, Webber, really grinds me, he's in a slower car, with worn out tyres and believes he can fend off a Ferrari which is setting fastest laps and he accuses Lewis of dangerous driving!??!?!) and Massa for driving off the track and into a very dangerous position across the pit lane exit, he could and should have backed out, he had the grip to take Webber at virtually any point on the track.
Leaving team and driver favouritism's at the door: it has been yet another dark day for the sport.
righto, well. I think this was a good race. Very nice to see 3 different manufactuers on the podium! Alonso, Kubica...brilliant drives. Even if there's some luck involved. Alonso banging in those times, lap after lap, to make sure he got passed Kubica...very very good! I suspect he's one of the best drivers just now! (still:P)
There were a few moments in-which there was a dodgy desicion but that is the way of the race and frankly, they should be accepted
The Bob and Kimi fight for 2nd was rather good, I thought, until Kimi had to stop attacking. Either held back from the wall or tyre related.
I have a question: Why has the Renault become so fast? They were complaining of being under-powered but they were at times the fastest car on track.
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
I have another question Why was the tyre wear rate so high? I saw alot of cars running with next to no rubber left, the green stripes were completely gone on most tyres that entered the pit!
Mark Webber being a prime example, although 1 stopping takes care of that one, What about the 2 stoppers?
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
roost89 wrote:I have another question Why was the tyre wear rate so high? I saw alot of cars running with next to no rubber left, the green stripes were completely gone on most tyres that entered the pit!
Mark Webber being a prime example, although 1 stopping takes care of that one, What about the 2 stoppers?
There's a bunch of high speed right-handers + some corners where you have to brake and turn and that also adds to tyre wear.
roost89 wrote:I have another question Why was the tyre wear rate so high? I saw alot of cars running with next to no rubber left, the green stripes were completely gone on most tyres that entered the pit!
Mark Webber being a prime example, although 1 stopping takes care of that one, What about the 2 stoppers?
There's a bunch of high speed right-handers + some corners where you have to brake and turn and that also adds to tyre wear.
Thank you Timbo
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
What a joke - yet another stupid stupid decision from the stewards. What the hell is Bourdais supposed to have done - he exits the pits, is racing Massa for position, and Massa just turns into him.
They really do expect every other car on the circuit to just leap out the way of the Ferrari's.
Massa was at full speed, and had his race line picked. Bourdais was exiting the pits, accelerating up to speed. Rejoining the pack from pits should = yield when needed.
Think about it in terms of the road. Bourdais was merging onto the freeway. He has to do it in a manner that allows the people on the freeway to continue without interruption.
That's right. I just applied rules of the road to Formula 1.
Regarding the first turn of the race, and Lewis' move on Kimi:
-Lewis regrets his move, and admits it was incorrect.
-Heikke claimed it was a fair move, and there should not have been a penalty.
-Kimi says both Lewis and Heikke hit him. Safe to say he's in agreement with Lewis' penalty, and probably wanted the same for Heikke. No matter since he DNF'd anyhow.
When Lewis, the instigator, admits a mistake, it's crystal clear that he boned the turn, and deserved the penalty. Heikke is clearly out to lunch, first for thinking it was an OK move, and also for not mentioning anything about his alleged contact with Kimi.
As for Massa/Hamilton on turn 10, Massa was on the inside. Lewis ran his line too deep, and Massa simply had nowhere to go. Look at Massa's direction of travel, he really didn't do much of anything...went off the track, straight line, back on, and into Lewis. Plus or Minus a fraction of a second would have resulted in either a major collision, or no collision, but since Massa had nowhere to go but off track, I'm calling foul on Lewis.
There's no love lost between Ferrari and McLaren. The Ferrari drivers see a giant red bullseye on the McLaren cars, and the McLaren drivers...well, the Ferrari cars are already red, so go figure.
There's two races left, and there's just going to be more of this kind of stuff. This is a hard-fought championship, and bound to be run-ins at every opportunity. Just like any other sport in the world.
There are people on both sides of the discussion, because they're in favour of one team or the other.
So here's the bottom line:
Both teams are pulling boners on each other at this point, the race officials are in a lousy position having to sort it all out.
At the end of the day, it is what it is. We, as fans, should accept what happens and move on, JUST LIKE the teams we're cheering for already have.
BMW-Sauber's Nick Heidfeld was less convinced, pointing the finger at Hamilton rather than FIA officials.
"I thought Hamilton would have learnt his lesson from last year," the German driver told motorsports-magazine.com.
"He was told by his team in the last race to go steady. As far as I can see from the replay, the scrap on the first corner wasn't necessary."
Toyota's Jarno Trulli is apparently also unimpressed, vowing to ask Hamilton at the Shanghai drivers' briefing why he ignored blue flags at Fuji for more than a lap.
When a driver commits a silly mistake (Ferrari especially), the drivers have nothing to say. They're lips are always sealed. But when a Mclaren driver commits one, everybody has a something to say. So many drivers have been bit*hin' this season. They should have entered showbiz instead. Always talking to the media instead of the driver at fault. I miss the old days of F1. Less talk more show. Just my 2 cents. Peace out guys
.
