Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[Big Tea]

Covering vast areas with PV is always going to be daunting, but there seems to be an alternative (or addition) on the horizon.
https://www.renewableenergyhub.co.uk/ma ... anels.html

This is PV that replaces windows. In the article there is a bush shelter made from it, it could just as easily be a car port etc.

This is double as it also keeps the inside in shade and would cut down on aircon.

(Again, not the magic bullet, but lots of little bullets still do damage)

[Andres125sx]

That´s very interesting, but I´m afraid those will only be worth when prices go down dramatically, as windows receive considerably less radiation than a PV faced to the sun, so their real production will be considerably lower.

But makes you wonder about the future, very interesting indeed

[Big Tea]

That´s very interesting, but I´m afraid those will only be worth when prices go down dramatically, as windows receive considerably less radiation than a PV faced to the sun, so their real production will be considerably lower.

But makes you wonder about the future, very interesting indeed

If it is only ever used on new build it will be a bonus.

[henry]

Some interesting numbers from @just a fan. The task to go 100% renewable electric does look daunting.

The numbers can be trimmed a bit by considering efficiencies.

Electric cars probably need between 20 and 25 kWh generated power per 100km. That assumes around 90% distribution efficiency and 90% charging efficiency.

ICE cars are much more variable. 5litre/100km (56 mp imp gallon, 45 mp US gallon) is about 50 kWh. I don’t know what the UK fleet average is but I doubt it’s that high.

It seems likely therefore that when calculating additional generating and distribution capacity for EVs the current ICE energy consumption can be divided by at least a factor of 2.

We can also factor in the time of day. If most charging of EVs is done overnight then there is a lot of spare capacity in the distribution grid.

I’m not trying to minimise the task of transitioning to carbon neutral but the scale of the generating/distribution task can be reduced by tackling efficiency as well.

[Just_a_fan]

Of all the motive technologies to quibble over in regards brake dust, perhaps dont pick the one that is capable of regenerative i.e. non-friction braking.

I was merely pointing out that studies have been done that point out a source of "pollution" that is not related to motive power source.

[Just_a_fan]

3.5kW is a small installation

As I said, it's an average installation.

At least in Spain

I have consistently quoted the UK as my point of reference. You have been discussing the issue on that basis until and unless you stated a different reference - which you have now done after several thread pages.

Spain has a different energy mix, a different usage base and a different renewable resource availability.

Perhaps in future you should clarify your frame of reference before expending energy on an argument.

As it happens, the whole world has a massive renewable resource availability. The issue is getting the energy to where it is used. Which goes back, nicely, to my point about grid investment.

[Just_a_fan]

Sorry but I don´t like people manipulating my words

Oh, the irony.

[Just_a_fan]

Proabably you´re thinking about normal wind turbines
https://www.incore-cables.com/wp-conten ... rbines.png

But for particulars, there are a lot more options wich are obviously more practical for roof instalations, both horizontal axis
https://myskywind.shop/en?gclid=CjwKCAj ... 2wQAvD_BwE
https://myskywind.shop/storage/images/F ... eight=2560

Or vertical axis
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/3- ... 00x500.jpg

https://www.quietrevolution.com/
https://www.quietrevolution.com/s/cc_im ... 1456948538

http://www.blogtheorem.com/tech/vertica ... for-future
http://www.blogtheorem.com/wp-content/u ... -VAWT.jpeg

Look at this one, 3kW turbine, but with this design, it can be up to 10kW
https://www.solarstore.co/Roof-Mount-30 ... _p_13.html

No, I really do understand the difference between a grid-connected 100m tall turbine and a domestic scale turbine.

In the UK, domestic scale turbines are really not that practical on any meaningful scale. There are a few, but for 99% of UK dwellings, a wind turbine is not an option.

[Just_a_fan]

Some interesting numbers from @just a fan. The task to go 100% renewable electric does look daunting.

The numbers can be trimmed a bit by considering efficiencies.

The elephant in the room is reduction of demand - the one thing politicians are terrified of. In order to make zero or near-zero emissions practical, we need to massively reduce energy demand. That requires massive social engineering in terms of reducing journeys - especially work commuting - as a start.

We're wasting our time so long as large percentages of a given population spend several hours a day driving to and from work. If that time includes time spent with engines idling (as is the reality in most traffic queues) then there is a very easy gain to be had from those people not commuting. That requires Govt to get involved in commercial operations i.e. banning companies from having people commute to sit in an office when they could just as effectively work from home.

Starts have been made in reducing energy demand for heating / cooling by improving insulation, but that is not nearly enough.

[Andres125sx]

Proabably you´re thinking about normal wind turbines
https://www.incore-cables.com/wp-conten ... rbines.png

But for particulars, there are a lot more options wich are obviously more practical for roof instalations, both horizontal axis
https://myskywind.shop/en?gclid=CjwKCAj ... 2wQAvD_BwE
https://myskywind.shop/storage/images/F ... eight=2560

Or vertical axis
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/3- ... 00x500.jpg

https://www.quietrevolution.com/
https://www.quietrevolution.com/s/cc_im ... 1456948538

http://www.blogtheorem.com/tech/vertica ... for-future
http://www.blogtheorem.com/wp-content/u ... -VAWT.jpeg

Look at this one, 3kW turbine, but with this design, it can be up to 10kW
https://www.solarstore.co/Roof-Mount-30 ... _p_13.html

No, I really do understand the difference between a grid-connected 100m tall turbine and a domestic scale turbine.

In the UK, domestic scale turbines are really not that practical on any meaningful scale. There are a few, but for 99% of UK dwellings, a wind turbine is not an option.

Any reason? It is an option for anyone.

[Andres125sx]

As I said, it's an average installation.

At least in Spain

I have consistently quoted the UK as my point of reference. You have been discussing the issue on that basis until and unless you stated a different reference - which you have now done after several thread pages.

Spain has a different energy mix, a different usage base and a different renewable resource availability.

Perhaps in future you should clarify your frame of reference before expending energy on an argument.

As it happens, the whole world has a massive renewable resource availability. The issue is getting the energy to where it is used. Which goes back, nicely, to my point about grid investment.

What???? Now you say???

I´ve stated that repeteadly, and it is on my profile, shown at every single post I do. If you have just noticed it´s your problem, do not acuse me of not being fair or sincere please

And.... In UK you can sign in less than 3.5kW with an electrical company for your home? Are you sure about this?

[rscsr]

At least in Spain

I have consistently quoted the UK as my point of reference. You have been discussing the issue on that basis until and unless you stated a different reference - which you have now done after several thread pages.

Spain has a different energy mix, a different usage base and a different renewable resource availability.

Perhaps in future you should clarify your frame of reference before expending energy on an argument.

As it happens, the whole world has a massive renewable resource availability. The issue is getting the energy to where it is used. Which goes back, nicely, to my point about grid investment.

What???? Now you say???

I´ve stated that repeteadly, and it is on my profile, shown at every single post I do. If you have just noticed it´s your problem, do not acuse me of not being fair or sincere please

And.... In UK you can sign in less than 3.5kW with an electrical company for your home? Are you sure about this?

afaik at least in Austria you don't have a lower limit on peak power.

[rgava]

Comparative CO2 Lifecycle comparative analysis eGolf vs. Diesel Golf:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/its-fina ... r-beckman/

I know some of you will say, CO2 is only part of the problem but, INHO it's the biggest problem because it's damaging the whole planet (global warming).

[Just_a_fan]

The Tesla shown in the final graph is amazingly high! Shows how the whole "EVs are clean and green" idea is somewhat flawed.

[henry]

Some interesting numbers from @just a fan. The task to go 100% renewable electric does look daunting.

The numbers can be trimmed a bit by considering efficiencies.

The elephant in the room is reduction of demand - the one thing politicians are terrified of. In order to make zero or near-zero emissions practical, we need to massively reduce energy demand. That requires massive social engineering in terms of reducing journeys - especially work commuting - as a start.

Nail meet head.

The other part to this issue is timescales. Not only will society need to change a large number of behaviours but every year’s delay will make the changes more difficult and disruptive.

And the problem is enormously complex and gaining complexity as the years roll on. When AVs come, and they are mainly ride hail EVs what difference will that make to energy generation and distribution, government finances, employment?

Societies like slow incremental change taking place in timescales measured in generations. That needs very long term planning. Unfortunately that doesn’t happen when your preferred government system is 5 year elected dictatorships as we have in the U.K.