Esteban Ocon's future drives

[NathanOlder]

@Manoah2u

To say Max had a chance to catch Hamilton for P1.....

Max pushing like crazy to catch and pass Vettel was showing Max's ultimate pace.

Lewis showed his on the last lap.

come on man, be serious

[Pyrone89]

1. Perez (obvious), Verstappen (obvious), Norris (see Goodwood video how he talks about him), Leclerc and Gasly (in their French karting days).
2. He was not faster than Verstappen in F3. Ocon was driving for the Prema Powerteam (think of it as the Mercedes of lower categories) while Ferrari was driving for Van Amersfoort (think of it as the Racing Point of lower categories). Furthermore Verstappen had more wins in the VA (who had never won a race before he arrived) than anyone else even with the engine penalty meaning he had a 10-place grid penalty drop for 3(!) races. Also from all the ontrack battles Verstappen won every single one except 1.
3. Verstappen may have classed with people on track, but not off it (and that is what we are talking about, team harmony and all). Ocon did both on plenty of occassions.

That's an useful list, thank you. As many drivers have shown though, having other drivers not liking you is...well, fine.
It also good to hear Verstappen had more wins and won almost all the on-track battles. But Ocon was clearly fast enough to win overall. Undoubtedly, he was helped by his car (as is the nature of this motorsport) but he performed at the required level to win.
If you think Verstappen's relationship with Ricciardo was all sweetness and mutual respect, then I agree to disagree. Similarly, I don't remember Ocon picking a fight with another driver in the pitlane. Or threatening to headbutt a reporter. Or deliberately hitting another car. Again, being 'fiery' does not prevent you being successful in F1. If anything, it simply makes you more popular.

To be clear, I'm not criticising Verstappen. He's effectively irrelevant to this thread as it isn't an 'Ocon vs Verstappen' thread, although it's interesting that it's going that way, no? As I said in my post, plenty of people in the sport think Ocon is very fast. There's plenty of evidence that he'd be quick in a Mercedes. Verstappen is simply an example that you don't need to be universally popular to be quick.

My question after all that would be, If Max was as hot as everyone was saying from his karting days, why did he end up in a force india

1. He signed very late when all the other seats where taken. In fact until the last minutenthey were deciding between going Formula Renault and Euro F3. Only after he broke a lap record in a Formula Renault in only his second go they decidee to go straight to Euro F3 and bypass Formula Renault, F4 and even regional F3
2. Going from karting straight to the third tier of car racing (Euro F3) is huge. Normally you go through Formula Renault and F4 first (as Ocon did) followed by regional F3 or Euro F3 for the really top performers in the former car classes, no matter how big your karting record is. So even when seats would have been available and with such a karting career a lot of teams would be wary. Compare it with Leclerc: he absolutely dominated F2, but no F1 top team would take him as a rookie straight out of F2. He had to go through Sauber. Just like Senna or Lauda did not land in their top teams immidiately. The same happens in lower categories

[NathanOlder]

So max rushed in to F3, like he did with F1. if he was patient, he would already be in a Ferrari or Mercedes.

He's not patient, he ends up in a RedBull.

as for Leclerc, after his F2 title, he couldnt join a top team anyway, Ferrari had Vettel and Kimi under contract. So he couldn't go to a top team full stop.

[Pyrone89]

So max rushed in to F3, like he did with F1. if he was patient, he would already be in a Ferrari or Mercedes.

He's not patient, he ends up in a RedBull.

as for Leclerc, after his F2 title, he couldnt join a top team anyway, Ferrari had Vettel and Kimi under contract. So he couldn't go to a top team full stop.

Dude you are really putting on the hate for MV strong. This also makes it that no-one will take your opinion seriously on subjects involving him.

He was so good he could bypass two steps, immidiately win the most races in Euro F3 in a midfield team never winning before, dominating with a huge time delta in the wet on a track with only 4 corners leading him to be signed as an F1 driver when he was only 16, first driving one in a GP weekend being 17 years and 3 days, debuting age 17 and scoring points youngest ever in his second race and the next year being promoted to a top team and immidiately einning his first race after a team change smashing the record. He is now on 6 victories and 25 podiums and has a lot of experience already, Leclerc on 0 wins and 4 podiums. So who made the right choices?
And for your info, Max was wanted by all top teams but RB made the best offer (straight to F1). Ferrari is not on upgrade over RB, especially not with their constant failings and blame culture. Only Mercedes is, and no one foresaw Nico would quit, so the line-up looked filled for the next 5 or more years. Look at Ocon being sidelined, good choice huh?

[NathanOlder]

So max rushed in to F3, like he did with F1. if he was patient, he would already be in a Ferrari or Mercedes.

He's not patient, he ends up in a RedBull.

as for Leclerc, after his F2 title, he couldnt join a top team anyway, Ferrari had Vettel and Kimi under contract. So he couldn't go to a top team full stop.

Dude you are really putting on the hate for MV strong. This also makes it that no-one will take your opinion seriously on subjects involving him.

He was so good he could bypass two steps, immidiately win the most races in Euro F3 in a midfield team never winning before, dominating with a huge time delta in the wet on a track with only 4 corners leading him to be signed as an F1 driver when he was only 16, first driving one in a GP weekend being 17 years and 3 days, debuting age 17 and scoring points youngest ever in his second race and the next year being promoted to a top team and immidiately einning his first race after a team change smashing the record. He is now on 6 victories and 25 podiums and has a lot of experience already, Leclerc on 0 wins and 4 podiums. So who made the right choices?
And for your info, Max was wanted by all top teams but RB made the best offer (straight to F1). Ferrari is not on upgrade over RB, especially not with their constant failings and blame culture. Only Mercedes is, and no one foresaw Nico would quit, so the line-up looked filled for the next 5 or more years. Look at Ocon being sidelined, good choice huh?

Yes redbull offered him toro rosso. My point exactly, If he was patient, he would be in a Mercedes now. Im not blaming him, I'm just pointing it out.

as for the "he was so good he jumped 2 steps"

you call Euro F3 3rd tier, so GP3 now F3 is 3rd tier,

Ocon jumped the same, Kvyat did too, Bottas did, Stroll did.

again, whats your point.

I've watched every race of Euro F3 since 2015, Every race of Gp3 Gp2 F3 F2 since around 2012, So I dont need updating on what they are ect ect, just so you know for future reference.

[Zarathustra]

He's not patient, he ends up in a RedBull.

You make that sound like it’s a bad thing?

Probably you think it is? Makes his wins worth even more- huh?

[NathanOlder]

He's not patient, he ends up in a RedBull.

You make that sound like it’s a bad thing?

Probably you think it is? Makes his wins worth even more- huh?

Its only a bad thing if he never gets a wdc. If Ocon gets in the Merc next year, and Merc carry their advantage on, then I guess it could be seen as a bad thing.

If in late 2014 Mercedes offer you a contract and maybe a seat in GP2, RedBull off you a contract and a seat in ToroRosso, Ferrari offer you a contract and a seat in GP2,

Where do you go? It seems quite obvious at first, but remember what you have just seen in F1, Merc were so far ahead, its crazy to think RedBull could win a title in the coming years, Renault were sooooo bad.

[Pyrone89]

So max rushed in to F3, like he did with F1. if he was patient, he would already be in a Ferrari or Mercedes.

He's not patient, he ends up in a RedBull.

as for Leclerc, after his F2 title, he couldnt join a top team anyway, Ferrari had Vettel and Kimi under contract. So he couldn't go to a top team full stop.

Dude you are really putting on the hate for MV strong. This also makes it that no-one will take your opinion seriously on subjects involving him.

He was so good he could bypass two steps, immidiately win the most races in Euro F3 in a midfield team never winning before, dominating with a huge time delta in the wet on a track with only 4 corners leading him to be signed as an F1 driver when he was only 16, first driving one in a GP weekend being 17 years and 3 days, debuting age 17 and scoring points youngest ever in his second race and the next year being promoted to a top team and immidiately einning his first race after a team change smashing the record. He is now on 6 victories and 25 podiums and has a lot of experience already, Leclerc on 0 wins and 4 podiums. So who made the right choices?
And for your info, Max was wanted by all top teams but RB made the best offer (straight to F1). Ferrari is not on upgrade over RB, especially not with their constant failings and blame culture. Only Mercedes is, and no one foresaw Nico would quit, so the line-up looked filled for the next 5 or more years. Look at Ocon being sidelined, good choice huh?

Yes redbull offered him toro rosso. My point exactly, If he was patient, he would be in a Mercedes now. Im not blaming him, I'm just pointing it out.

as for the "he was so good he jumped 2 steps"

you call Euro F3 3rd tier, so GP3 now F3 is 3rd tier,

Ocon jumped the same, Kvyat did too, Bottas did, Stroll did.

again, whats your point.

I've watched every race of Euro F3 since 2015, Every race of Gp3 Gp2 F3 F2 since around 2012, So I dont need updating on what they are ect ect, just so you know for future reference.

Ocon did racing classes between karting and F3

[Zarathustra]

Who was dominant prior to Mercedes?

[NathanOlder]

Who was dominant prior to Mercedes?

thats before the biggest rules changes the sport had seen for decades. So its totally irrelevant

[NathanOlder]

Dude you are really putting on the hate for MV strong. This also makes it that no-one will take your opinion seriously on subjects involving him.

He was so good he could bypass two steps, immidiately win the most races in Euro F3 in a midfield team never winning before, dominating with a huge time delta in the wet on a track with only 4 corners leading him to be signed as an F1 driver when he was only 16, first driving one in a GP weekend being 17 years and 3 days, debuting age 17 and scoring points youngest ever in his second race and the next year being promoted to a top team and immidiately einning his first race after a team change smashing the record. He is now on 6 victories and 25 podiums and has a lot of experience already, Leclerc on 0 wins and 4 podiums. So who made the right choices?
And for your info, Max was wanted by all top teams but RB made the best offer (straight to F1). Ferrari is not on upgrade over RB, especially not with their constant failings and blame culture. Only Mercedes is, and no one foresaw Nico would quit, so the line-up looked filled for the next 5 or more years. Look at Ocon being sidelined, good choice huh?

Yes redbull offered him toro rosso. My point exactly, If he was patient, he would be in a Mercedes now. Im not blaming him, I'm just pointing it out.

as for the "he was so good he jumped 2 steps"

you call Euro F3 3rd tier, so GP3 now F3 is 3rd tier,

Ocon jumped the same, Kvyat did too, Bottas did, Stroll did.

again, whats your point.

I've watched every race of Euro F3 since 2015, Every race of Gp3 Gp2 F3 F2 since around 2012, So I dont need updating on what they are ect ect, just so you know for future reference.

Ocon did racing classes between karting and F3

But why are you saying that, when you were claiming Max was so good he jumped 2 tiers, I said Ocon did the same and you just ignore my point.

You make a point, I explain why I think its incorrect.
I make a point, you just come out with something else, another point.

[Pyrone89]

Yes redbull offered him toro rosso. My point exactly, If he was patient, he would be in a Mercedes now. Im not blaming him, I'm just pointing it out.

as for the "he was so good he jumped 2 steps"

you call Euro F3 3rd tier, so GP3 now F3 is 3rd tier,

Ocon jumped the same, Kvyat did too, Bottas did, Stroll did.

again, whats your point.

I've watched every race of Euro F3 since 2015, Every race of Gp3 Gp2 F3 F2 since around 2012, So I dont need updating on what they are ect ect, just so you know for future reference.

Ocon did racing classes between karting and F3

But why are you saying that, when you were claiming Max was so good he jumped 2 tiers, I said Ocon did the same and you just ignore my point.

You make a point, I explain why I think its incorrect.
I make a point, you just come out with something else, another point.

Because Ocon did not jump 2 tiers from karting to car classes, that is why. Surely you can look it up on Ocon’s wiki.

“In 2012, Ocon made his debut in single-seaters, taking part in the Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0 with Koiranen Motorsport.[8] He finished fourteenth with four point-scoring finishes, including being on the podium at his home round at Le Castellet.[6] He also contested a partial campaign in the Formula Renault 2.0 Alps with Koiranen,[9] finishing seventh with two podiums, both of which came at the Red Bull Ring.

For 2013, he decided to switch to the ART Junior Team.[10] He took three podiums, as well as his first victory at Le Castellet, and finished the season in third.[11]

Ocon joined the World Series in Renault's 3.5 category for Comtec Racing at the Hungaroring and Le Castellet, scoring two points in his first race.[12]”

On 11 March 2015, it was announced that Ocon would enter the series with ART Grand Prix. He claimed the championship despite only scoring one victory (two other victories were denied due to penalties) and pressure from Luca Ghiotto.

“Ocom drove for Mercedes-Benz in the first 10 races of the 2016 DTM season, alongside his reserve driver role at Renault Sport F1. He was subsequently replaced by Felix Rosenqvist, following his promotion to Manor.“
2 years of Formula Renault with bad first year and ok 2nd year, 1 very good year of EuroF3, 1 good year in GP3 and DTM, then to Manor (absolute backmarker) for half a season.
Not really comparable to Max his jumps from karting to very good year of EuroF3 to Torro Rosso (midfield) immensely outscoring his teammate eith more car racing experience and 2x 4th including battling with Ferrari’s at the USGP in the damp.

[NathanOlder]

You claimed Max jumped 2 tiers, I assume you were talking Euro F3 to F1.

[Zarathustra]

Who was dominant prior to Mercedes?

thats before the biggest rules changes the sport had seen for decades. So its totally irrelevant

Is it? It’s not like RB had lost all their resources..

“Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand it’s gone.”

[Pyrone89]

You claimed Max jumped 2 tiers, I assume you were talking Euro F3 to F1.

EuroF3 to F1 is jumping 1 class (F2), which Kvyat and I believe Bottas also did.
From karting to EuroF3 is jumping 2 classes:
1. Formula Ford/regional F4
2. European Formula Renault and regional F3