2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

[SiLo]

The weekend for them was really just simple mistakes that snowballed into a terrible weekend. The first was not listening to the best wet weather driver on the grid about which tyres to use, the second was not pitting him under the SC for new inters.

Weekend to forget really, but I think the team will bounce back in Hungary.

[e30ernest]

The weekend for them was really just simple mistakes that snowballed into a terrible weekend. The first was not listening to the best wet weather driver on the grid about which tyres to use, the second was not pitting him under the SC for new inters.

Weekend to forget really, but I think the team will bounce back in Hungary.

It's easy to blame the team for not listening to the driver, but often times the team has a better picture on what's going on. They probably saw that the times of those that switched to slicks at that period to be substantially better to those running inters. They also probably saw the forecast to be drying so they elected to bring Hamilton in for slicks. IIRC, that was a SC stop too so it was a cheap stop.

Of course on hindsight, this was the wrong move. But I don't think it's fair to say they were wrong not to follow Hamilton (who if you'll remember, has made some weird strategy requests in the past too).

[Bill_Kar]

The weekend for them was really just simple mistakes that snowballed into a terrible weekend. The first was not listening to the best wet weather driver on the grid about which tyres to use, the second was not pitting him under the SC for new inters.

Weekend to forget really, but I think the team will bounce back in Hungary.

To be honest, I think Wolff was right when he said that the team got a bit complacent. That's why he seemed so angry. Now, I'm not saying all of this was the result of the celebrations or the Netflix episode, just that they were slightly less concentrated than a normal weekend.

You mentioned two mistakes that are absolutely spot on. The origins were different though; First one, I get it, everyone's on the dry tires, is it raining, is it not raining, half the track bone dry, SC etc.

But I mostly felt let down by the second one, because it was not at the heat of the moment, they had time to think under VSC, all the data were on the table and the penalty was widely known. Unless they thought that another pit stop won't be necessary, it was a plain and wrong decision. But they knew they would do another one, because no more rain was predicted.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that they will bounce back, mentally and racing. They always do after a mess (ie Austria 2018).

[turbof1]

Guys, please keep it clean.

It's ok to state that Mercedes had a horrible weekend and overall were clumsy. Criticism is acceptable.

However, the criticism has to abide to some basic rules: staying respectful and staying reasonable.

As other pointed out, there is no argument to be made for penalizing a driver slipping off the road. There are clear rules on this in the sporting regulations, all found under article 39). A driver abiding these rules is in the clear regarding that and cannot be given a penalty. It's a rather black and white case. Argueing differently is not reasonable.

Again, you can argue it was clumsy. Not everybody will agree on that, but I do think everybody will see there is some merit to that.

[Bill_Kar]

The weekend for them was really just simple mistakes that snowballed into a terrible weekend. The first was not listening to the best wet weather driver on the grid about which tyres to use, the second was not pitting him under the SC for new inters.

Weekend to forget really, but I think the team will bounce back in Hungary.

It's easy to blame the team for not listening to the driver, but often times the team has a better picture on what's going on. They probably saw that the times of those that switched to slicks at that period to be substantially better to those running inters. They also probably saw the forecast to be drying so they elected to bring Hamilton in for slicks. IIRC, that was a SC stop too so it was a cheap stop.

Of course on hindsight, this was the wrong move. But I don't think it's fair to say they were wrong not to follow Hamilton (who if you'll remember, has made some weird strategy requests in the past too).

I haven't revisited the race (because the pain is still there, probably will do after a win in Hungary ), but I'm pretty sure that Vettel on the dry tires was 3 seconds slower than Hamilton on the inters, just before he pitted. That's when I thought he will stay out, but unfortunately, he didn't. But this was a piece of info that should prevent them from having a pit stop, right?

[El Scorchio]

What I find interesting about the Merc team is that they are quite robotic and 'by the numbers' with strategy, and I don't think they adapt or adjust on the fly well, or come up with clever counter strategy.

Maybe it's down to years of not having to be particularly clever or resourceful with putting strategy together or executing during a race due to the performance of the cars, but I think it's the one big weak point in the team which can usually be glossed over by result, but will sometimes bite hard.

Case in point how they handled Sunday's race. I also remember them not being smart enough to anticipate VSC opportunities in the past for their own drivers, or being caught out by other teams taking such opportunities. They also have a tendency in races they are not winning, or are in a struggle to win, to get caught between a rock and a hard place or paralysed with indecision, leaving drivers out too long and watching opportunities evaporate. Was it earlier this year Hamilton went against strategy because he could see it wasn't going to be the best choice for him? There's also the famous radio call from a year or so back: 'Guys, we've lost this race haven't we.' after one such oversight.

Red Bull seem far, far more savvy in this regard- possibly because they have to search so hard for every opportunity to get their cars ahead. They so often make the right call at the right time. Similar to Ferrari under Brawn and Todt. Clever, decisive, opportunistic and thinking out of the box.

For Merc, simply a question of not ever really having to deviate from plan A, or a lack of cunning and intuition?

[e30ernest]

But I mostly felt let down by the second one, because it was not at the heat of the moment, they had time to think under VSC, all the data were on the table and the penalty was widely known. Unless they thought that another pit stop won't be necessary, it was a plain and wrong decision. But they knew they would do another one, because no more rain was predicted.

From the team radio, it seems that (pitstop that resulted to the penalty) was Hamilton's fault. He was the one who called for the box and turned into the pitlane after the bollard. That's why the team was caught off-guard (they didn't call Hamilton in).

It's all heat-of-the-moment but IMO this was where Hamilton's race unraveled. But he really didn't have much choice. He can run around the track with a broken wing and come in 1 lap later (it was a SC right?) without losing much time, but that's also an unsafe situation (wing jammed under the car in the rain).

[IvailoStefanovBG]

But I mostly felt let down by the second one, because it was not at the heat of the moment, they had time to think under VSC, all the data were on the table and the penalty was widely known. Unless they thought that another pit stop won't be necessary, it was a plain and wrong decision. But they knew they would do another one, because no more rain was predicted.

From the team radio, it seems that (pitstop that resulted to the penalty) was Hamilton's fault. He was the one who called for the box and turned into the pitlane after the bollard. That's why the team was caught off-guard (they didn't call Hamilton in).

It's all heat-of-the-moment but IMO this was where Hamilton's race unraveled. But he really didn't have much choice. He can run around the track with a broken wing and come in 1 lap later (it was a SC right?) without losing much time, but that's also an unsafe situation (wing jammed under the car in the rain).

Not exactly. Hamilton`s fault was result of putting softs when it was time for inters. Ham`s race engineer asked him if it`s appropriate to put soft in the lap he pitted and Ham`s response was that it`s too slippery, but team decided to cover other teams strategy and pitted him. In the lap he went out of box on softs he made the mistake. These tires were impossible to drive in these conditions. Lecler`s fault was result of the same. Max made 360 slip on mediums also just the lap before. It`s definitely team`s fault - but finally they have seconds to take decisions and are actually humans....This race was russian roulette....

[e30ernest]

But I mostly felt let down by the second one, because it was not at the heat of the moment, they had time to think under VSC, all the data were on the table and the penalty was widely known. Unless they thought that another pit stop won't be necessary, it was a plain and wrong decision. But they knew they would do another one, because no more rain was predicted.

From the team radio, it seems that (pitstop that resulted to the penalty) was Hamilton's fault. He was the one who called for the box and turned into the pitlane after the bollard. That's why the team was caught off-guard (they didn't call Hamilton in).

It's all heat-of-the-moment but IMO this was where Hamilton's race unraveled. But he really didn't have much choice. He can run around the track with a broken wing and come in 1 lap later (it was a SC right?) without losing much time, but that's also an unsafe situation (wing jammed under the car in the rain).

Not exactly. Hamilton`s fault was result of putting softs when it was time for inters. Ham`s race engineer asked him if it`s appropriate to put soft in the lap he pitted and Ham`s response was that it`s too slippery, but team decided to cover other teams strategy and pitted him. In the lap he went out of box on softs he made the mistake. These tires where impossible to drive in these conditions. Lecler`s fault was result of the same. Max made 360 slip on mediums also just the lap before. It`s definitely team`s fault - but finally they have seconds to take decisions and are actually humans....This race was russian roulette....

I can't wait for the Pitwall video so that they can explain their thinking as to why Softs was the tire to put Lewis on at that time. This isn't a random decision I'm sure. They based that off something.

[Pyrone89]

I still think different about spinning off under double yellows while a competitor was walking there and marshalls could have been out on track, with as I can see no rule about a minimum speed (so max time) but lets agree to disagree.

With regards to Ham’s penalty for missing the bollard, I think it would have been more dangerous if he had stayed out and spread carbon all over the track, so really shocked the stewards decided to penalize him for that one instead of using the force majeur exception.

Ps: Turbof1, my reply to you is stuck in the outbox, seems some issue with the PM system

[turbof1]

I still think different about spinning off under double yellows while a competitor was walking there and marshalls could have been out on track, with as I can see no rule about a minimum speed (so max time) but lets agree to disagree.

With regards to Ham’s penalty for missing the bollard, I think it would have been more dangerous if he had stayed out and spread carbon all over the track, so really shocked the stewards decided to penalize him for that one instead of using the force majeur exception.

Ps: Turbof1, my reply to you is stuck in the outbox, seems some issue with the PM system

I understand you feel that it was a dangerous situation, and I think nobody here disagrees with that. But, there are rules in place with the intention to avoid anyone getting hurt. Hamilton spinning off could have been quite dangerous, but he did followed the rules on this. The logical argument here is that perhaps the rules were insufficient to avoid this situation (but then again, you can't plan for every situation separately). Maybe the delta time should have been slower, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to drive on slicks in those circumstances. Maybe this should have been a red flag. But you can't blame the driver for following the rules and still getting into a potential dangerous situation. It is racing after all, and these were exceptional circumstances for him getting off the track in the first place.

Same with Hamilton getting penalized for driving around the bollard on the wrong side. Yes, it was clearly safer for him to get in right away. But, the regulations (I'm not sure if this is in the sporting regulations or a separate directive) were strict on this. And there is an argument to be made he could either have retired to avoid a dangerous situation and breaking the rules, or that he would have lost out significant time and ground if he went around the track with a broken front wing.

[e30ernest]

One can argue too that he couldn't have gone slower without risking someone hitting him from behind. The delta time also protects against that since it gives everyone a target to drive to so they're not too slow and not too fast.

[digitalrurouni]

What I find interesting about the Merc team is that they are quite robotic and 'by the numbers' with strategy, and I don't think they adapt or adjust on the fly well, or come up with clever counter strategy.

Maybe it's down to years of not having to be particularly clever or resourceful with putting strategy together or executing during a race due to the performance of the cars, but I think it's the one big weak point in the team which can usually be glossed over by result, but will sometimes bite hard.

Case in point how they handled Sunday's race. I also remember them not being smart enough to anticipate VSC opportunities in the past for their own drivers, or being caught out by other teams taking such opportunities. They also have a tendency in races they are not winning, or are in a struggle to win, to get caught between a rock and a hard place or paralysed with indecision, leaving drivers out too long and watching opportunities evaporate. Was it earlier this year Hamilton went against strategy because he could see it wasn't going to be the best choice for him? There's also the famous radio call from a year or so back: 'Guys, we've lost this race haven't we.' after one such oversight.

Red Bull seem far, far more savvy in this regard- possibly because they have to search so hard for every opportunity to get their cars ahead. They so often make the right call at the right time. Similar to Ferrari under Brawn and Todt. Clever, decisive, opportunistic and thinking out of the box.

For Merc, simply a question of not ever really having to deviate from plan A, or a lack of cunning and intuition?

Agreed when watching the race it was amazing to see how Red Bull was so flexible. They seemed to be operating under the idea that they could just pass whoever they needed to and make progress up the field as long as the tires were correct for the situation. So many times it felt like Mercedes could have pitted and given Hamilton new tires especially under the safety car when Ham was on the radio asking why he didn't box for new rubber and they replied the 5 second penalty would put them in traffic. And then I saw the gap between the cars after he passed the pit exit and it was nearly 5 seconds before the next car came around the corner!!! I mean come on lol. He had good pace on inters. HE could have easily passed whoever he had fallen behind. Blows my mind.

[Sierra117]

Stroll and Williams the dark horses in Germany

[e30ernest]

I really love this team's honesty. They're not afraid to own up on their mistakes. Interesting that their discussion with Lewis wasn't actually about Inters>Softs but Mediums>Softs....