General Honda F1 Topic

[GhostF1]

https://streamable.com/99zjw

Max, Lewis & Valtteri on Renault's 1000hp claim .

I know it's main topic is about the Renault but if I post it in the Renault thread, considering how angsty it can get, I think people will see it as a flame.. besides they asked for comparison to Honda and Merc.

[bobobaba]

Maybe if American Honda produced better cars and fixed their ugly Acura designs then they wouldn't have to think about getting rid of what fuels their brand loyalty in the first place.

Honda's products outside the US would sell like hotcakes and mochi donuts. American Honda and the dealership network are clueless. Step wagon, Freed, S660, Honda E, UR-V, Avancier and Jade/Stream should be sold in all markets. No need to develop new platforms.

Or kill off Acura and buy Aston Martin and Landrover.

Ummm you realize American Honda is what is funding Honda as a whole?

America is Honda's largest market...

In saying that, I wouldn't say "it's funding the whole thing". That's too broad a statement.

It sucks Haas is playing Ferrari second fiddle. It would do wonders if they signed a huge deal with Honda from 2021+ as Haas-Acura. Could be a sort of junior/semi works Honda team. Their presence in the US is huge. Get HPD involved. Could be awesome.

America, Asia the biggest market for Honda and the motorcycle division. US dealers are clueless? I think it is not comparable to the eu dealers...idiot EU regulations+lack of european strategy+Brexit, future of Swindon?, etc,.. I think all point to a bad direction. It seems to me that Honda clueless what to do in Europe. Toyota, Suzuki even Mazda could find where they want to go, Honda not and do totally the opposite of it:
https://twitter.com/hondasa/status/430694505285566464

[ispano6]

Ummm you realize American Honda is what is funding Honda as a whole?

America is Honda's largest market...

In saying that, I wouldn't say "it's funding the whole thing". That's too broad a statement.

It sucks Haas is playing Ferrari second fiddle. It would do wonders if they signed a huge deal with Honda from 2021+ as Haas-Acura. Could be a sort of junior/semi works Honda team. Their presence in the US is huge. Get HPD involved. Could be awesome.

America, Asia the biggest market for Honda and the motorcycle division. US dealers are clueless? I think it is not comparable to the eu dealers...idiot EU regulations+lack of european strategy+Brexit, future of Swindon?, etc,.. I think all point to a bad direction. It seems to me that Honda clueless what to do in Europe. Toyota, Suzuki even Mazda could find where they want to go, Honda not and do totally the opposite of it:
https://twitter.com/hondasa/status/430694505285566464

Products priced and sized for US and Americans don't fit in Europe. Have you seen the limited model range of AmHo? Hence is why that offering I've mentioned from Asia should be sold globally. People don't need huge cars or hydrogen fuel cell or clean diesel bs. They need small efficient freedom of transport. There is also the factor of what europeans are willing to pay for a "Honda".

[Alexf1]

Race 5 for spec 3. Fingers crossed.

[subcritical71]

Honda are really heading in the right direction and momentum seems to be on their side.

Hard to believe they went from this;

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... y_2015.jpg

to where they are today in 4 short-long years.

I can't believe they started in such a sorry state...

I’m surprised they took on the challenge with a one (actually more) year gap in initial development and then the token system further hampering their early efforts. Was it two years they could only partially develop because of the tokens? What really set them back was the first year of misunderstanding the engine that cost them those first two years. Once they could develop without limits is when they hit their stride. No matter how they got their, the last few races for them are showing they can now lead and win races.

[PhillipM]

The token system hurt Honda and Renault hard, it was a stupid idea - you can see just how much better the races are this year now they've been able to try things and really catch up.

[JordanMugen]

Have you seen the limited model range of AmHo?

Limited range!? Australians would love to have access to all the models sold by American Honda!

Australians have similar taste to Americans -- Australians like crew cab utilities (pick up trucks) and big SUVs. Honda Ridgeline crew cab utility, Honda Pilot 7-seat SUV, Honda Passport 5-seat SUV, Acura RDX SUV and Acura MDX SUV would all sell well in Australia. [Personally I think SUVs are tacky and pointless vehicles -- low slung station wagon with superior road holding and aerodynamics every day of the week for me -- but you have to sell people what they like!]

However, Honda Australia cannot access these vehicles because they are not available in the South-East Asian market where Honda Australia must source their vehicles from (mainly from Thailand). The North American specific Civic Si with manual transmission would be particularly welcome in Australia, because instead the Thai factory produces no manual transmission Civics at all meaning that the Civic Type R is the only model of Civic you buy with manual transmission in Australia -- all the others have the (unfavoured) CVT.

While smaller, economical vehicles like Brio and BR-V are sold in SE Asia, the profit margins on such vehicles are not large enough to warrant importing them to Australia.

Anyway, let's hope Honda continues with power unit supply -- it would be madness not to.

Hence is why that offering I've mentioned from Asia should be sold globally.

Those Kei cars would not be popular globally (sadly).

S660 aside, Honda's other Kei cars like Honda N-Box don't have the sporty and dynamic handling that Europeans expect from their subcompact cars. European compacts are very sporty and dynamic (Ford Fiesta with razor sharp steering and lift off oversteer for example!), whereas the Japanese Kei cars buyers don't want that and, dutifully, Honda delivers N-Box with comfort-orientated settings that European buyers wouldn't like.

On the other hand, cars like Honda N-Box are way too small for the North American market (who, indeed, do prefer comfort over sporting handling at least) and would be a flop in NA, IMO.

Step wagon, Freed, ... Honda E, UR-V, Avancier and Jade/Stream should be sold in all markets. No need to develop new platforms.

These cars are just not going to be sporty enough for the European market, meanwhile they are too small for the North American market. They are very much largely Asian market cars, for Asian market tastes IMO.

Honda Jade is too similar to Honda Jazz which is already sold in EU (and already considered to lack sportiness compared to Fiesta!). Honda Avancier is too similar to Honda CR-V which is already sold in EU and North America.

Honda Freed -- Skoda Roomster already has that market in EU, while Americans would not like such a boxy and "uncool" car.

Honda E will be a nice global product.

[ispano6]

Have you seen the limited model range of AmHo?

Limited range!? Australians would love to have access to all the models sold by American Honda!

Australians have similar taste to Americans -- Australians like crew cab utilities (pick up trucks) and big SUVs. Honda Ridgeline crew cab utility, Honda Pilot 7-seat SUV, Honda Passport 5-seat SUV, Acura RDX SUV and Acura MDX SUV would all sell well in Australia. [Personally I think SUVs are tacky and pointless vehicles -- low slung station wagon with superior road holding and aerodynamics every day of the week for me -- but you have to sell people what they like!]

However, Honda Australia cannot access these vehicles because they are not available in the South-East Asian market where Honda Australia must source their vehicles from (mainly from Thailand). The North American specific Civic Si with manual transmission would be particularly welcome in Australia, because instead the Thai factory produces no manual transmission Civics at all meaning that the Civic Type R is the only model of Civic you buy with manual transmission in Australia -- all the others have the (unfavoured) CVT.

While smaller, economical vehicles like Brio and BR-V are sold in SE Asia, the profit margins on such vehicles are not large enough to warrant importing them to Australia.

Anyway, let's hope Honda continues with power unit supply -- it would be madness not to.

Hence is why that offering I've mentioned from Asia should be sold globally.

Those Kei cars would not be popular globally (sadly).

S660 aside, Honda's other Kei cars like Honda N-Box don't have the sporty and dynamic handling that Europeans expect from their subcompact cars. European compacts are very sporty and dynamic (Ford Fiesta with razor sharp steering and lift off oversteer for example!), whereas the Japanese Kei cars buyers don't want that and, dutifully, Honda delivers N-Box with comfort-orientated settings that European buyers wouldn't like.

On the other hand, cars like Honda N-Box are way too small for the North American market (who, indeed, do prefer comfort over sporting handling at least) and would be a flop in NA, IMO.

Step wagon, Freed, ... Honda E, UR-V, Avancier and Jade/Stream should be sold in all markets. No need to develop new platforms.

These cars are just not going to be sporty enough for the European market, meanwhile they are too small for the North American market. They are very much largely Asian market cars, for Asian market tastes IMO.

Honda Jade is too similar to Honda Jazz which is already sold in EU (and already considered to lack sportiness compared to Fiesta!). Honda Avancier is too similar to Honda CR-V which is already sold in EU and North America.

Honda Freed -- Skoda Roomster already has that market in EU, while Americans would not like such a boxy and "uncool" car.

Honda E will be a nice global product.

US doesn't get the Honda E....
See, eurocentric opinion of how cars are supposed to be. There are plenty of non Europeans in NA with non euro tastes and sensibilities. Kcars have their place in cities and urban communities. Its just that you might get killed by one of the many oversized trucks and SUVs. So, small cars in cities, big trucks/suvs in suburbs.

Australian market ought to get what Asean and Asia gets. But really, make the cars available globally. Let the buyer choose their level of safety needed for the environment and proximity in which its used. We live in interconnected world where region "tastes" and barriers no longer exist.

[JordanMugen]

But really, make the cars available globally. Let the buyer choose their level of safety needed for the environment and proximity in which its used. We live in interconnected world where region "tastes" and barriers no longer exist.

Excellent points!

Personally I would love every Honda vehicle to be as sporty as Ford of Europe vehicles -- Honda is obviously more than capable of doing that, as Honda always cranks up the sportiness to the max on vehicles like Type R or S2000.

But, unfortunately, most Honda buyers don't want such sporty (harsh) suspension or such overly responsive steering. Even Ford of Europe themselves, reduced the sportiness of their Mondeo due to buyer feedback wanting softer handling and more comfort (though Fiesta and Focus are as sporty as ever).

That means I have to pick a Type R model or European-market Accord model to get a Honda with Ford-of-Europe or Mazda-like sporty driving characteristics (S-series and NSX aside!).

PS. NSX Type R is my favourite car [filmed here at Honda's Nurburgring-inspired Japanese test track], it's "so Honda" -- lovely, humble and well executed machine, with beautiful chassis balance and the perfect amount of smooth V6 power.

[Pyrone89]

So, back to F1.

How is this gonna go down with Honda? Demoralized by the loss of P1 or increased moral because of being in the battle anyway while still being slower than Merc and giving Ferrari an asswhooping?

[Big Tea]

But really, make the cars available globally. Let the buyer choose their level of safety needed for the environment and proximity in which its used. We live in interconnected world where region "tastes" and barriers no longer exist.

Excellent points!

Personally I would love every Honda vehicle to be as sporty as Ford of Europe vehicles -- Honda is obviously more than capable of doing that, as Honda always cranks up the sportiness to the max on vehicles like Type R or S2000.

But, unfortunately, most Honda buyers don't want such sporty (harsh) suspension or such overly responsive steering. Even Ford of Europe themselves, reduced the sportiness of their Mondeo due to buyer feedback wanting softer handling and more comfort (though Fiesta and Focus are as sporty as ever).

That means I have to pick a Type R model or European-market Accord model to get a Honda with Ford-of-Europe or Mazda-like sporty driving characteristics (S-series and NSX aside!).

We can not even get the Honda Jazz in UK with a proper automatic gearbox (only CVT) although it is made in Swindon. So I bought a Hyundai.

[Sieper]

They are improving and improving. Every race they do a bit better and dare a bit more.

They were so fast today, almost matching Merc in the hands of Hamilton. I am sure they will not be demoralised. Spec 4 seems to be very good. Lets hope that is true. To me what Honda is showing is very encouraging and I hope they feel this way themselves too.

[JordanMugen]

So, back to F1.

Sorry.

Demoralized by the loss of P1

Surely not!

Another podium is still a very welcome result and huge improvement on seasons past!

It would be madness if Honda would quit just as the unit becomes competitive -- especially with power unit rules to stay the same for forseeable future.

So I bought a Hyundai.

[I mean Hyundai are alright, they are making great products with strong German influence in design and engineering.]

[bigblue]

Got to be pleased with reliability, even allowing for swapping some engines out early for development purposes. Don't forget where they came from, reliability is now assumed, which is a big change. Surely at some point one will go kaboom due to pushing the limits and the rate of development, but not so far !

[ispano6]

Clearly we're all upset about Honda's offerings in our own regions and the grass is always greener on the other side. Hopefully Honda F1 stands up for itself and points the finger back at commercial vehicle strategy to fix their own issues.