2019 Renault F1 Team

[Big Tea]

I keep getting the feeling Renault are going to gather up their toys and go home because its raining.
I hope I am wrong, but thats the way it is looking. Engines only from 2020.

[Benii6]

I keep getting the feeling Renault are going to gather up their toys and go home because its raining.
I hope I am wrong, but thats the way it is looking. Engines only from 2020.

Come on. Didn't they just expand their team by 300 people plus investments in facilities/equipment. And why would they quit before 2021, when there is a great opportunity to catch up. Even if they don't get it right at first, the rules are supposed to be very restrictive.

[Big Tea]

I keep getting the feeling Renault are going to gather up their toys and go home because its raining.
I hope I am wrong, but thats the way it is looking. Engines only from 2020.

Come on. Didn't they just expand their team by 300 people plus investments in facilities/equipment. And why would they quit before 2021, when there is a great opportunity to catch up. Even if they don't get it right at first, the rules are supposed to be very restrictive.

They have been there, done that. They did not pick the lowest point last time, just when the board considered the cost was not justified by the results (read sales)

[bosyber]

Still the race to go, so we will see if Renault are faster than McLaren in race conditions, and if Renault can bring home their proper P7 & P8 positions as the "best of the rest".

The answer is no, Renault cannot. In fact, Renault are way off the pace in almost embarrassing fashion...

Toyota is a sad, but apt, warning comparison.

I don't think it's sad. Renault Sport F1 are indeed very similar to Toyota Motorsport GmbH. I think if Renault followed Toyota's example and set their minds to Le Mans and WRC, Renault would probably be quite competitive there in those (crucially) less competitive series. That's not a bad thing at all.

It doesn't mean Toyota Motorsport GmbH or Renault Sport F1 are incompetent, it just means they are less good than rival operations... They will get better results by competing in series with less competition.

Well, I agree that there's (motor)sport outside of F1, but, I have to disagree, what Toyota were doing in F1, spending huge amounts of money, but always staying just a bit away from the top, was sad to see; I think the talent of most involved, and the money could have been better spent doing LeMans at that time, or split to a smaller, more agile team perhaps. It wasn't a talent issue, it was most likely purely stubborn sticking to a not-working for F1 model of management/organisation. And if I would be harsh, I'd say: even in LeMans, how many years did they fight at the top, so why did they only manage to win when the other LMP1 competition was gone?

So, not a good example then for Renault - but, the team at Enstone do know how to win, so I don't think they are heading the same way, I believe they can come good. But it would be nice if they were able to show it a bit more clearly, and consistently.

[Fulcrum]

There is no way a team invests in acquiring a top driver on an expensive, multi-year contract, only to walk away within a year of said investment. That, in conjunction with the additional investment in manpower, should be enough to allay most fears of withdrawal.

The entire field is becoming more competitive, field spread is narrowing, so a few less than optimal results are to be expected when occupying the midfield. Most teams (Alfa, McLaren, Renault, Haas, Toro Rosso), are basically one update away from moving to the front of this pack. Whoever loads on new developments that actually work will see big gains in position.

[JordanMugen]

Most teams (Alfa, McLaren, Renault, Haas, Toro Rosso), are basically one update away from moving to the front of this pack. Whoever loads on new developments that actually work will see big gains in position.

Renault does not have a good track record of updates that actually work! But we will see...

Renault really need to fix the rear end instability / aero balance issue which has been in place since way back on the RS17 [!!!], it is absolutely fundamental that they fix it.

For whatever reason, Renault choose to keep the highest rake for 2019, even though reducing rake should help reduce the problem.

Surely Renault cannot expect that only scoring points at tracks with short radius corners is good enough!?

[Big Tea]

There is no way a team invests in acquiring a top driver on an expensive, multi-year contract, only to walk away within a year of said investment. That, in conjunction with the additional investment in manpower, should be enough to allay most fears of withdrawal.

The entire field is becoming more competitive, field spread is narrowing, so a few less than optimal results are to be expected when occupying the midfield. Most teams (Alfa, McLaren, Renault, Haas, Toro Rosso), are basically one update away from moving to the front of this pack. Whoever loads on new developments that actually work will see big gains in position.

They had Alonso on the books last time.

[loner]

hello Mag

[Pyrone89]

hello Mag
https://streamable.com/yi5np

And again in Hungary and again at the same corner. If MAG says ‘suck my balls’ we are going full Dejavu

[Fulcrum]

There is no way a team invests in acquiring a top driver on an expensive, multi-year contract, only to walk away within a year of said investment. That, in conjunction with the additional investment in manpower, should be enough to allay most fears of withdrawal.

The entire field is becoming more competitive, field spread is narrowing, so a few less than optimal results are to be expected when occupying the midfield. Most teams (Alfa, McLaren, Renault, Haas, Toro Rosso), are basically one update away from moving to the front of this pack. Whoever loads on new developments that actually work will see big gains in position.

They had Alonso on the books last time.

Yes but:

• Alonso was out of contract and/or actively seeking alternative options.

• Renault had been threatening to leave owing to regulations, etc...

• The global financial crisis meant Renault was rationalising assets.

• Singapore 2008 recriminations were an ongoing major issue, ultimately resulting in the clearing out of management structures, and effectively both drivers as well.

Very different circumstances to now. No financial crisis (yet), Ricciardo is a new hire, and the team performance (as well as the engine) is improving, in spite of recent results.

[carisi2k]

Renault like Honda should just stick to being an engine manufacturer. Aside from those 2 years with Alonso all of their championships have come as an engine supplier.

[Jambier]

Renault like Honda should just stick to being an engine manufacturer. Aside from those 2 years with Alonso all of their championships have come as an engine supplier.

Well it depends. If they wanted to, they could put some serious money, recruiting top engineers and fight for world championship.
Of course this is not what they have decided now. I don't even understand why they are here doing this, fighting with midfield. This is stupid.

So indeed, it would be a much better choice to be an engine supplier BUT a engine supplier with visibility.
With Red Bull, they were not visible.
And we speak about Honda because this is first year, but then it will be exactly as Renault during the Vettel years, they will not be visible.

A McLaren with a bit of Renault branding could be a good thing. But McLaren wants to stay independent so...

For me a great kind of Private team + engine partner was more in the past, the McLaren Mercedes, when both brand where highly visible, or even the Williams Renault back then.

[PowerandtheGlory]

Ive always been confused by the RBR Honda Aston martin Branding... but i hope Renault dont go down the engine supply route.. I think most teams want to see how the new rules, regs and cost cutting start to work. Enstone should be safe, as long as they put up a decent fight. If Renault ever did sell up- you'd hope another big manufacturer/supplier would come in and just takeover and re-brand the site.. they have decent facilities so it would be a no-brainer for a team wishing to follow the 'old' model F1 of building a car themselves. If you were following a new model then you perhaps wouldn't want to aquire so much facilities you weren't going to use.. 1st half of the year has been both promising and also frustrating, but i expect the cars to go well in Spa and Monza but then struggle in high DF races.

[Jambier]

Except surprise that can always happen, Renault plan to stay until 2024

They agreed to when negociating their return with Bernie.
They are impoving engine facility.
And making deal with their fuel supplier to 2024

So if they don't quit by the end of 2020, they will try 4 years with the new rules... actually they are betting on the budget cap to fight for championship.

The limit of their thinking is that top teams will of course put big money to have the best 2021 car and will have many more performance than Renault.
And also that I don't see why they will do a better job than McLaren for instance, there is absolutely no evidence they will.

[ESPImperium]

Renault are better off forgetting about 2020 and should focus solely on 2021 and the new regulations since putting any more money in to this dead duck will be a waste of money.

I think ESPImperium is right that waiting until then is too late - they need to see, and show themselves and their drivers that they can make a good step with a car for next year. Otherwise, why would they have more success for 2021? Had they had a clear progress this year (indeed, like McLaren are showing), I would agree with you, but now, the do really need to have a clear path forward in my opinion.

And even if it isn't about the chassis, their track operations and management of the race weekend need to become more consistent and/or inventive - as it is they seem both risk averse and less than solid at the same time. Toyota is a sad, but apt, warning comparison. While I don't fully trust whenever Horner says something, Cyril does really only seem to be there as the default political appointee, and that's not a way to run a team (if only Vasseur had been the one to be retained).

You have where I'm coming from.

F1 often has the warning signs in its past, Toyota is the warning sign I'm looking at. In 2008 and 2009 they had the opportunity to win more than one race. The Chassis was there, but the management wasn't inventive enough, the Singapore races both years come to mind, had they pitted earlier they could have won, especially on the first stop, 2008 was a waste for them on strategy if i remember.

Renault have their superstar driver, that is one thing they have over the Toyota example, as Glock, Trulli and Kobayashi are all good drivers, but they are all number 2s. This is where I'm seeing Hulkenberg these days, Riccardo is a superstar, and must be treated as the way Toyota were going to treat Kimi for 2010, until Ferrari paid him another €20m over his €20m salary he could have had at Ferrari if they kept him for 2010, Kimi went Rallying and not to Toyota for €28m a year. It was the final straw for Toyota management.

I feel that if they don't get atop the chassis to McLaren levels presently, they will be P7 this year, even P8. They can't afford to do this. In a race of randomness, like Germany, they need to be more inventive, however keep warning their drivers to be careful as a race like this is often won in the last 5 laps or so, especially when weather can be a great leveller for lower teams on the chassis side.

Im just wondering right now, Mclaren offered Riccardo a rumoured €21.5m contract for 2 years last year, he chose the Renault seat for €23.5m. Im wondering if he is thinking he should have gone there if he was to leave Red Bull, or should he have stayed at Red Bull. What is clear, Sainz is showing why i have always liked him since i saw him drive in GP3 in 2013.Sainz i often think is a forgotten man of F1, however last years Renault against Hulkenberg as Hulkenberg was only outscored by 16 points, and this year he is now coming into his own.

Id like the team to become more inventive, less like the now failed committee route that has been shown to be a failure at many F1 teams, McLaren are the latest to ditch this, Ferrari have ditched it and Sauber had it until Vasseur came along and changed it. They need the modern classic lay out, with a Team Principle, a Technical Director and a person looking after the drivers or some other element. Dare i say, they need to ditch Cyril and go get someone like Bullier back as he is a racer, give him a year or two to get the mix right and then go.

But ill say this only once, the Mercedes employment contract is something to behold in F1, its easy to join, they even give you a massive bounty to do so, but when it comes to leaving, its another thing... The gardening leave is 2 years, however they move you from F1 to other motorsport activities for 18 months, then sit you out for the final 6 months. It makes leaving harder, and limits the technology transfer from one team to another. It means by the time you have got your feet under your new desk, you don't have much value to your new employer as you don't have much relevant data to give them. Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull over the last 15 years have had issues retaining staff in their dominant year or years, Mercedes don't have that issue as they almost seal you into a long term arrangement, but they pay you well, very well for this arrangement. The technology transfer in F1 from Mercedes to others is shockingly low. This is one area that would speed up the other teams, and if the FIA don't do anything about this in the sporting regulations, we many have a Mercedes decade or more of domination. Other teams use the 6 month gardening leave rule, the Mercedes team uses the UKs strong IP and Employment laws to enforce a full 2 years of gardening leave for their employees. Even employees that have ended their contract have to sit out away from other F1 teams for 2 years as per UK laws, these employees often end up at Le Mans P1 and P2 teams for that period. Renault did a good one in getting Budkowski in the team, although they had to wait for their man. But their key appointments are not great.

I think Renault needs to get rid of the political appointments, get racers in there to do the job. If they need a political man in there, have them as sporting director as then they will do the best for the team and the best for the company and its brand.

Theres more than the chassis not quite right at Renault. They have all the tools at the factory now, they have a good Simulator, Driver Wellness facility, machinery and design suites. The problems i think are in human structures and this is affecting getting performance on the car. Appart from Alfa who don't have a simulator yet and Haas who share the Ferrari one, they are the only team who don't use their simulator during any practice session due to the fact they don't have a simulator driver like what Mclaren have in Turvey, Mercedes in Vandoorne and Guiteriez, Red Bull in Da Costa and Buemi, Ferrari in Hartley and Wheirlein, Williams have Rowland, Racing Point have various and Toro Rosso in Liuzzi.