2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

The real source is Cyril mouth . It's his never ending PR. This site copy and paste what Cyril said a few weeks ago . And let be honest when was the last time anything that Cyril said was true? We heard their new chassis in the French hp brought 5 tenths but aren't they still struggling. It's all Renault PR, just to show Redbull that, they don't miss them.

Pretty sure Cyril knows that RBR can figure that all out on their own. Also Renault were happy to be rid of RBR. RBR was a PR nightmare for Renault. What you're suggesting is a little childish.

I disagree. Renault has been talking big and not delivering. Let's look at Renault v Honda for example. You really think RBR was bad PR Renault? Renault is bad PR for Renault.

Was/is Renault bad or just not spending as much as Merc and later Ferrari?

It's not what I think, It's what Renault thought. Renaults knew they were doing what they could with the budget they were given. It was pretty obvious that Renault didn't like RBR saying all the negative things they were saying publically. It didn't matter to them wether what they were saying was justified or not. They are spending 200 Million plus a year on a F1 PU for publicity and all they were getting out of it was that their PU was crap. Jettisoning RBR and replcing them with a "trusted" partner like Mclaren is more what they're looking for.

From a RBR persepective they were "in it to win it" and Renault weren't spending enough. They did what they could to push Renault to pull out of F1 or invest more.

Ironically both McLaren and RBR gave up on the PU manufactures when they were turning the corner. A couple of years ago Renault chose to spend more and I beleive McLaren are reaping the rewards of that this year.

[Big Tea]

Pretty sure Cyril knows that RBR can figure that all out on their own. Also Renault were happy to be rid of RBR. RBR was a PR nightmare for Renault. What you're suggesting is a little childish.

I disagree. Renault has been talking big and not delivering. Let's look at Renault v Honda for example. You really think RBR was bad PR Renault? Renault is bad PR for Renault.

Was/is Renault bad or just not spending as much as Merc and later Ferrari?

It's not what I think, It's what Renault thought. Renaults knew they were doing what they could with the budget they were given. It was pretty obvious that Renault didn't like RBR saying all the negative things they were saying publically. It didn't matter to them wether what they were saying was justified or not. They are spending 200 Million plus a year on a F1 PU for publicity and all they were getting out of it was that their PU was crap. Jettisoning RBR and replcing them with a "trusted" partner like Mclaren is more what they're looking for.

From a RBR persepective they were "in it to win it" and Renault weren't spending enough. They did what they could to push Renault to pull out of F1 or invest more.

Ironically both McLaren and RBR gave up on the PU manufactures when they were turning the corner. A couple of years ago Renault chose to spend more and I beleive McLaren are reaping the rewards of that this year.

I think Renaults major fault is now reliability compared to others. If it is down on power OK,its a failing, but getting the car to the end of the line is where points of anysort are.

[diffuser]

I disagree. Renault has been talking big and not delivering. Let's look at Renault v Honda for example. You really think RBR was bad PR Renault? Renault is bad PR for Renault.

Was/is Renault bad or just not spending as much as Merc and later Ferrari?

It's not what I think, It's what Renault thought. Renaults knew they were doing what they could with the budget they were given. It was pretty obvious that Renault didn't like RBR saying all the negative things they were saying publically. It didn't matter to them wether what they were saying was justified or not. They are spending 200 Million plus a year on a F1 PU for publicity and all they were getting out of it was that their PU was crap. Jettisoning RBR and replcing them with a "trusted" partner like Mclaren is more what they're looking for.

From a RBR persepective they were "in it to win it" and Renault weren't spending enough. They did what they could to push Renault to pull out of F1 or invest more.

Ironically both McLaren and RBR gave up on the PU manufactures when they were turning the corner. A couple of years ago Renault chose to spend more and I beleive McLaren are reaping the rewards of that this year.

I think Renaults major fault is now reliability compared to others. If it is down on power OK,its a failing, but getting the car to the end of the line is where points of anysort are.

They said they solved the early season problem but that has left them on the back foot trying to get to the end of the season with 3 PUs. McLaren's Hydraulic failures have added to the problems. It seems to be a reoccuring theme with McLaren. I could only guess that the components they moved out of the sidepods to above the PU required some changes to the Hydraulics from last year.

I like the fact that they took the risk to get equal on Race power with the top 2.

[Big Tea]

Was/is Renault bad or just not spending as much as Merc and later Ferrari?

It's not what I think, It's what Renault thought. Renaults knew they were doing what they could with the budget they were given. It was pretty obvious that Renault didn't like RBR saying all the negative things they were saying publically. It didn't matter to them wether what they were saying was justified or not. They are spending 200 Million plus a year on a F1 PU for publicity and all they were getting out of it was that their PU was crap. Jettisoning RBR and replcing them with a "trusted" partner like Mclaren is more what they're looking for.

From a RBR persepective they were "in it to win it" and Renault weren't spending enough. They did what they could to push Renault to pull out of F1 or invest more.

Ironically both McLaren and RBR gave up on the PU manufactures when they were turning the corner. A couple of years ago Renault chose to spend more and I beleive McLaren are reaping the rewards of that this year.

I think Renaults major fault is now reliability compared to others. If it is down on power OK,its a failing, but getting the car to the end of the line is where points of anysort are.

They said they solved the early season problem but that has left them on the back foot trying to get to the end of the season with 3 PUs. McLaren's Hydraulic failures have added to the problems. It seems to be a reoccuring theme with McLaren. I could only guess that the components they moved out of the sidepods to above the PU required some changes to the Hydraulics from last year.

I like the fact that they took the risk to get equal on Race power with the top 2.

I see your point of view, but feel that for this year at least gathering points and getting the maximum running time (and exposure for sponsors) is the way they should be going. They are going to have heavy going with Albon in the other STR and a few points earlier may make a difference at the end of the season, and the extra race time would probably be valuable too. Its one of those decisions we only know after

[Jackles-UK]

Hydraulics have been a nemesis for McLaren for years, we seem to see at least 3-4 of these hydraulic failures a season for McLaren these days (many gearbox issues are traced back to hydraulic issues). They were an issue in the Honda and Mercedes days as well though so I’m not sure it’s fair for Renault to take the flack for that.

[diffuser]

Hydraulics have been a nemesis for McLaren for years, we seem to see at least 3-4 of these hydraulic failures a season for McLaren these days (many gearbox issues are traced back to hydraulic issues). They were an issue in the Honda and Mercedes days as well though so I’m not sure it’s fair for Renault to take the flack for that.

Didn't mean to suggest it was Renault fault. It's clearly McLaren's fault in my mind.

[_cerber1]

According to Remi Taffin, Renault chief engineer, the so-called “Specification C” will be ready only for the Italian Grand Prix, it should increase in efficiency and become about 10 hp. more powerful. But for the first time it will be tested in training at the Spa.

“The increase in power will be about the same as it was when moving from Specification A to Specification B,” Taffin explained.

https://www.f1news.ru/news/f1-139153.html

[Andres125sx]

I disagree. Renault has been talking big and not delivering. Let's look at Renault v Honda for example. You really think RBR was bad PR Renault? Renault is bad PR for Renault.

If I was a PU manufacturer, I´d not be very happy if my most competitive customer don´t use my name in his car, despite using one of my PUs, and any comment about my product was negative.

Do you really think that´s not bad PR for Renault?

[Andres125sx]

Ironically both McLaren and RBR gave up on the PU manufactures when they were turning the corner. A couple of years ago Renault chose to spend more and I beleive McLaren are reaping the rewards of that this year.

Agree, but even when what you say is true, I see it the other way around. It´s RBR who´s reaping the rewards of Honda development with McLaren.

Both are true, but it´s RBR who has achieved works team status with the switch, so in my mind they´re the ones who got the biggest reward

And Honda, two victories for the japaneese manufacturer would have obviously been out of reach with McLaren

[diffuser]

Ironically both McLaren and RBR gave up on the PU manufactures when they were turning the corner. A couple of years ago Renault chose to spend more and I beleive McLaren are reaping the rewards of that this year.

Agree, but even when what you say is true, I see it the other way around. It´s RBR who´s reaping the rewards of Honda development with McLaren.

Both are true, but it´s RBR who has achieved works team status with the switch, so in my mind they´re the ones who got the biggest reward

And Honda, two victories for the japaneese manufacturer would have obviously been out of reach with McLaren

Yeah, I agree with that, always have. Also with RBR, Honda get 4 cars instead of 2 to test with. I think RBR and Honda got the better deals.

I think the power difference between the 4 PUs are negligable right now. Although I still think Renault are up there with the other 2 and Honda are a little behind. At the back of my mind, I wonder if the regulation change that allowed for larger fuel tanks is the biggest equalizer. Just wonder if any of the other PU are as fuel efficient as the Merc. It's something that never gets talked about.

[McG]

Ironically both McLaren and RBR gave up on the PU manufactures when they were turning the corner. A couple of years ago Renault chose to spend more and I beleive McLaren are reaping the rewards of that this year.

Agree, but even when what you say is true, I see it the other way around. It´s RBR who´s reaping the rewards of Honda development with McLaren.

Both are true, but it´s RBR who has achieved works team status with the switch, so in my mind they´re the ones who got the biggest reward

And Honda, two victories for the japaneese manufacturer would have obviously been out of reach with McLaren

Yeah, I agree with that, always have. Also with RBR, Honda get 4 cars instead of 2 to test with. I think RBR and Honda got the better deals.

I think the power difference between the 4 PUs are negligable right now. Although I still think Renault are up there with the other 2 and Honda are a little behind. At the back of my mind, I wonder if the regulation change that allowed for larger fuel tanks is the biggest equalizer. Just wonder if any of the other PU are as fuel efficient as the Merc. It's something that never gets talked about.

McLaren got the better deal. McLaren are doing a lot better this year with the matured Renault engine whereas Red Bull aren't winning the championship. They still wouldn't be winning the championship with Renault, most likely just a few wins again.

I do think there is engine convergence beginning to happening but Honda is slightly flattered by the Red Bull, all things considered.

[Macklaren]

McLaren got the better deal. McLaren are doing a lot better this year with the matured Renault engine whereas Red Bull aren't winning the championship. They still wouldn't be winning the championship with Renault, most likely just a few wins again.

I do think there is engine convergence beginning to happening but Honda is slightly flattered by the Red Bull, all things considered.

Agreed (and its amazing how this forum always gravitates toward this topic)...but I think Honda and McLaren ironically benefited the most from the split rather than Renault or RBR

[Ground Effect]

According to Remi Taffin, Renault chief engineer, the so-called “Specification C” will be ready only for the Italian Grand Prix, it should increase in efficiency and become about 10 hp. more powerful. But for the first time it will be tested in training at the Spa.

“The increase in power will be about the same as it was when moving from Specification A to Specification B,” Taffin explained.

https://www.f1news.ru/news/f1-139153.html

From the article, the 10hp gain appears to be the writer’s supposition, Taffin didn’t mention a specific figure, only that it’s a similar or same increase as was with Spec A to Spec B.
There was an AMuS article where Hulk said Spec B was worth about 0.2secs in lap time, does that roughly translate to 10hp?

[GhostF1]

Agree, but even when what you say is true, I see it the other way around. It´s RBR who´s reaping the rewards of Honda development with McLaren.

Both are true, but it´s RBR who has achieved works team status with the switch, so in my mind they´re the ones who got the biggest reward

And Honda, two victories for the japaneese manufacturer would have obviously been out of reach with McLaren

Yeah, I agree with that, always have. Also with RBR, Honda get 4 cars instead of 2 to test with. I think RBR and Honda got the better deals.

I think the power difference between the 4 PUs are negligable right now. Although I still think Renault are up there with the other 2 and Honda are a little behind. At the back of my mind, I wonder if the regulation change that allowed for larger fuel tanks is the biggest equalizer. Just wonder if any of the other PU are as fuel efficient as the Merc. It's something that never gets talked about.

McLaren got the better deal. McLaren are doing a lot better this year with the matured Renault engine whereas Red Bull aren't winning the championship. They still wouldn't be winning the championship with Renault, most likely just a few wins again.

I do think there is engine convergence beginning to happening but Honda is slightly flattered by the Red Bull, all things considered.

I think we all agree that McLaren splitting with Honda was the best option for both parties, it got too sour and there was no way the two could work harmoniously again, both the executive and general staff side. Both are benefiting now for several reasons, but I think it's a bit strange to imply that "because RBR are not winning the championship, the RBR/Honda relationship was a worse deal"... I mean, similar logic could come to the conclusion that they are second best however, surpassing Ferrari, something they have not achieved with previous engine partners. Even that is a bit premature to suggest in my opinion, so that line of logic falls short.

There is a definite PU performance convergence occurring here, I think anyone stating either Honda or Renault are ahead of each other in this area is likely reaching from their personal bias and is probably ignoring the performances of the past 5 races.
Most importantly.. there is clearly only one outlier of the 4 manufacturers in the reliability stakes at the moment now, and that needs sorting ASAP. Watching PU related retirements is getting old very fast..

[diffuser]

McLaren got the better deal. McLaren are doing a lot better this year with the matured Renault engine whereas Red Bull aren't winning the championship. They still wouldn't be winning the championship with Renault, most likely just a few wins again.

I do think there is engine convergence beginning to happening but Honda is slightly flattered by the Red Bull, all things considered.

Agreed (and its amazing how this forum always gravitates toward this topic)...but I think Honda and McLaren ironically benefited the most from the split rather than Renault or RBR

Finacially is was a nets loss for McLaren and net gain for RBR.