Porsche Taycan

[santos]

Porche, leading ICE sports car manufacturer. It spend 7 billion $ for the development of this and still handy beaten down by 2013 Tesla design. Model S is cheaper, reaches longer distance, faster, has more space.. Tesla's lead is HUGE.

As a side note:

Daimler abandons internal combustion engine development to focus on EVs:

https://www.teslarati.com/daimler-aband ... e-over-evs

Everyone is scrambling to catch Tesla.

It's cheaper, and you can see why.

[foxmulder_ms]

Porche, leading ICE sports car manufacturer. It spend 7 billion $ for the development of this and still handy beaten down by 2013 Tesla design. Model S is cheaper, reaches longer distance, faster, has more space.. Tesla's lead is HUGE.

As a side note:

Daimler abandons internal combustion engine development to focus on EVs:

https://www.teslarati.com/daimler-aband ... e-over-evs

Everyone is scrambling to catch Tesla.

It's cheaper, and you can see why.

Model S basically is tired of the victory laps at Nurburing, mate. Enjoy the EV revolution. I certainly love it. Enough with toxin spewing power station on wheels. In couple decades we will look back in shock that people were driving ICE cars. They will like smoking indoors or lead containing fuel. It is simply crazy.

I salute Porsche for trying but it has still a long way to catch Tesla. At least Posrche and Mercedes is working on the future. Some other ICE brands are still in denial. Brands we think are soooo big wont be with us in next decade and I am very happy about it. They dont deserve it.

[santos]

Model S basically is tired of the victory laps at Nurburing, mate. Enjoy the EV revolution. I certainly love it. Enough with toxin spewing power station on wheels. In couple decades we will look back in shock that people were driving ICE cars. They will like smoking indoors or lead containing fuel. It is simply crazy.

I salute Porsche for trying but it has still a long way to catch Tesla. At least Posrche and Mercedes is working on the future. Some other ICE brands are still in denial. Brands we think are soooo big wont be with us in next decade and I am very happy about it. They dont deserve it.

I totally agree with all that. But instead of lap times, i would rather see Tesla improve the quality of their products. And they can say they have a minimalist design, i still apreciate an interior that looks like a car interior and not my desk.
Porsche may be not faster, but you can't say it's slow. In the real world, i don't know if the range is so diferent. For the price, yes Tesla is more actractive. But both have their pros and cons.

[Andres125sx]

I had wondered about overheating of EVs when seriously pushed on track. But that´s not very different to ICEs wich are intended for road use, they also overheat, the engine or the brakes, quite easily

Problem with EVs is just the battery, and I guess for economy reasons as there are batteries wich can be depleted much faster than any EV can deplete its battery. A battery depleted in 45 minutes means it´s been discharged at an average of 1.5C, so peaks must be around 3-4C as much.

Just as a reference, I fly racing drones wich battery (Lipo, not LiIon) are depleted even in less than 2 minutes, wich is an average above 30C with peaks close to 100C (I´ve measured 140A for a 1.5Ah battery). LiIon are different, they can´t take those very high discharging rates, but I don´t think 5C are out of reach for the technology, just that it´s not worth using those batteries for a road car, they´re more expensive, and heavier, and on a road car and normal use people will never deplete the whole battery, from full charge to empty, under 30 minutes, so they use batteries with lower discharging rate so battery cost does not scale up even more


I´ve repeated this ad-nauseam, but when some new battery technology is finally released, ICE will simply dissapear. Only that I´m waiting for this for around a decade now, and still...

[Andres125sx]

I want to clarify, my drone batteries, when depleted in around 2 minutes, are so hot you can barely hold it in your hands. But with just a bit lower discharge (3 minutes) they barely heat up, and that´s a discharge of around 20C average

[914hald]

First rumors the "Model S P100D+" has laped the Nordschleife in 7:23. Already a whopper 19 seconds quicker than the Taycan Turbo S.

According to Mr. Musks twittering something they named "Plaid" with three engines is in it and that will be also the or a powertrain for the Roadster2... and will be also available for Model S and X.... But not in 3 or Y

Looks like it was a totally stripped down prototype, with wide Cup 2 race tyres wider arches and a spoiler, and it seems like it had problems completing full laps, so it was a calculated lap time .
Porsche lap time was a Lower spec Turbo with Road tyres. And that car could go round full throttle for several laps.

Seems Tesla's PR bull**** is working

[foxmulder_ms]

First rumors the "Model S P100D+" has laped the Nordschleife in 7:23. Already a whopper 19 seconds quicker than the Taycan Turbo S.

According to Mr. Musks twittering something they named "Plaid" with three engines is in it and that will be also the or a powertrain for the Roadster2... and will be also available for Model S and X.... But not in 3 or Y

Looks like it was a totally stripped down prototype, with wide Cup 2 race tyres wider arches and a spoiler, and it seems like it had problems completing full laps, so it was a calculated lap time .
Porsche lap time was a Lower spec Turbo with Road tyres. And that car could go round full throttle for several laps.

Seems Tesla's PR bull**** is working

You can be sure, Taycan was a special Taycan too. That is how these lap times work. Special cars, special circumstances. Everyone is trying their best. So yeah. If you want to compare daily usage figures, be careful what you are asking for. I bet Tesla will be even more competitive under regular circumstances.

[914hald]

First rumors the "Model S P100D+" has laped the Nordschleife in 7:23. Already a whopper 19 seconds quicker than the Taycan Turbo S.

According to Mr. Musks twittering something they named "Plaid" with three engines is in it and that will be also the or a powertrain for the Roadster2... and will be also available for Model S and X.... But not in 3 or Y

Looks like it was a totally stripped down prototype, with wide Cup 2 race tyres wider arches and a spoiler, and it seems like it had problems completing full laps, so it was a calculated lap time .
Porsche lap time was a Lower spec Turbo with Road tyres. And that car could go round full throttle for several laps.

Seems Tesla's PR bull**** is working

You can be sure, Taycan was a special Taycan too. That is how these lap times work. Special cars, special circumstances. Everyone is trying their best. So yeah. If you want to compare daily usage figures, be careful what you are asking for. I bet Tesla will be even more competitive under regular circumstances.

It was a standard Taycan Turbo with a rollcage, but full interior and standard tyres. It is not comparable at All.

The Porsche is all about durabilty, as always with Porsche they dont push out the wildest figures but can stand by them, over and over.

In my mind charge time are way more important than range, 0-100 time is only valid when you can do them more than once with same power level.

I just think that people are underestimating what Porsche has built here, an EV that Will work as a replace ment for ICE cars 100%. Teslas figures is maximum so they seem better than everybody else on paper

[foxmulder_ms]

Looks like it was a totally stripped down prototype, with wide Cup 2 race tyres wider arches and a spoiler, and it seems like it had problems completing full laps, so it was a calculated lap time .
Porsche lap time was a Lower spec Turbo with Road tyres. And that car could go round full throttle for several laps.

Seems Tesla's PR bull**** is working

You can be sure, Taycan was a special Taycan too. That is how these lap times work. Special cars, special circumstances. Everyone is trying their best. So yeah. If you want to compare daily usage figures, be careful what you are asking for. I bet Tesla will be even more competitive under regular circumstances.

It was a standard Taycan Turbo with a rollcage, but full interior and standard tyres. It is not comparable at All.

The Porsche is all about durabilty, as always with Porsche they dont push out the wildest figures but can stand by them, over and over.

In my mind charge time are way more important than range, 0-100 time is only valid when you can do them more than once with same power level.

I just think that people are underestimating what Porsche has built here, an EV that Will work as a replace ment for ICE cars 100%. Teslas figures is maximum so they seem better than everybody else on paper

Please, porsche massages their specs too. For example: Porsche claims their battery will be longer life just because they prevent you fully charging it to 100%. It is limited to 85% or smt similar. Tesla has the same thing with software but lets you to go 100% if you want.

Also, faster charging depends on your definition. If it is *fully* charge, Tesla is still the faster.

Tesla has adamant haters. If the figures Tesla says were wrong, we would know they were. They are the figures their factory car can do.

Tesla has the best cars out there, just try and drive one Tesla smile is real.

[914hald]

I have driven an older model S, very fast, and fun, but it feels akward in drivning position and assembly, i have driven a lot of Ipaces thru my work at JLR, and I can see/feel the tech in Tesla is superior, but the Jag itself is better handling, and fels better built IMO.

[Tiny73]

The whole Tesla story is a fraud and is burning millions. But that’s another debate so I’ll just leave this here:

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/wa ... urburgring

[foxmulder_ms]

The whole Tesla story is a fraud and is burning millions. But that’s another debate so I’ll just leave this here:

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/wa ... urburgring

We will see in couple of years.. who is fraud, who is hero. Whole oil and auto dinosaur/fossil industries are using everything they have to keep Tesla down but luckily some are not blind.

[Tiny73]

The whole Tesla story is a fraud and is burning millions. But that’s another debate so I’ll just leave this here:

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/wa ... urburgring

We will see in couple of years.. who is fraud, who is hero. Whole oil and auto dinosaur/fossil industries are using everything they have to keep Tesla down but luckily some are not blind.

Now Tesla has some real competition in the shape of car companies who can deliver what they promise without building tent based production lines and who can meet their production targets without massaging figures we will see very quickly who is hero and who is zero.

<Wonders aloud how Tesla’s Cash burn is these days?>

[Cold Fussion]

Good article on how the Taycan has enough cooling/thermal performance for extended serious driving. In contrast the Tesla overheats after one lap of a short road course (if you turn on the special pre-cooling mode before you do the lap, if you just get in and drive then it won't even last one lap). If a gas-powered car had that level of overheating it would be called blatantly incompetent. I've always been baffled why Tesla is given a pass on this.

https://motoiq.com/porsche-taycan-chang ... -standard/

Tesla is given a pass because of the rabid fanboyism around the company for some bizarre reason. Why is cooling an EV so difficult given how efficient the drivetrain is? Do the batteries require some very narrow temperature range that also happens to be very low?

[Andres125sx]

Good article on how the Taycan has enough cooling/thermal performance for extended serious driving. In contrast the Tesla overheats after one lap of a short road course (if you turn on the special pre-cooling mode before you do the lap, if you just get in and drive then it won't even last one lap). If a gas-powered car had that level of overheating it would be called blatantly incompetent. I've always been baffled why Tesla is given a pass on this.

https://motoiq.com/porsche-taycan-chang ... -standard/

Tesla is given a pass because of the rabid fanboyism around the company for some bizarre reason. Why is cooling an EV so difficult given how efficient the drivetrain is? Do the batteries require some very narrow temperature range that also happens to be very low?

Exactly same fanboyism as any other brand selling cars over 100k$, it´s fanboyism/elitism/snobbery what makes people invest that money on a car when anyone can purchase any tourism or SUV under 30k$, or some very good sports cars or luxury sedan well below 100k$. People invest their money at their will, as always, be a Tesla or a Porche Cayene Turbo

About cooling, it´s the batteries what make it difficult, there are some hundreds individual batteries wich, as I explained some posts above, are not designed to provide high discharge rates continously for its whole capacity. There are batteries wich can, but they´re even more expensive and heavier, and these are road cars, not racing cars, using those would be wasting huge amounts of money for no advantage for 95% of users