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Oh okay, and yes it was 2015 Renault fell apart wasn't it, and now it's they who want the freeze I'm reading, with being still a bit smaller organisation than the others. I read Flav downsized them and they've never fully recovered. Honda you'd think want to keep developing, now they've finally got their organisation working to F1 level.NL_Fer wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 20:40I remember Mercedes to be in favor of a 4 cilinder concept also, afterall the current 2.0 powering the A45 and S-class was in development already. But probably engineers calculated the advantages of the split turbo and Mercedes switched sides and chose for a V6 also.
Also the 2014 Renault powerunit was not that bad, better than Scuderia and made Redbull 2nd WCC. They lost it in 2015 when Ferrari and Merc started to push eachother and introduced Jet Ignition and oil burning.
For 2021 Honda just wants a development freeze, al 4 are becoming more equal and harder to find any gains. A freeze will save al 4 money.
They strugled long time with the standart ECU and still they could not completely sort it out. Maybe they are living same things with f1 standart ECU (maybe mapping issues etc coming from there) but we don't know it because we have not got comparation pointBill wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 20:57Honda never said anything about a development freeze the person who said was helmet Marko he not a Honda employee. Quite frankly Honda will find a development freeze frustrating because they were laud into f1 on the premise that they can develop tech renegate on that will be deceitful. Honda doesn't mind a tech war they embrace it that's why they were not happy with common icu in moto gp.
Interesting, I don't follow motogp. Can anyone provide more information on the this? is the ECU also a Mclaren Applied Technologies supplied part? does anyone know what the problems were? Is a standard ECU in motogp a new concept?etusch wrote: ↑11 Sep 2019, 09:45They strugled long time with the standart ECU and still they could not completely sort it out. Maybe they are living same things with f1 standart ECU (maybe mapping issues etc coming from there) but we don't know it because we have not got comparation pointBill wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 20:57Honda never said anything about a development freeze the person who said was helmet Marko he not a Honda employee. Quite frankly Honda will find a development freeze frustrating because they were laud into f1 on the premise that they can develop tech renegate on that will be deceitful. Honda doesn't mind a tech war they embrace it that's why they were not happy with common icu in moto gp.
. Honda said that times they will consider to leave motogp because of that because they want to develop their own ecu.
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 7377734658RACE RESULTS SINGAPORE
1 SEBASTIAN VETTEL FERRARI 1:58:33.667
2 CHARLES LECLERC FERRARI +2.641s
--> 3 MAX VERSTAPPEN ASTON MARTIN RED BULL RACING +3.821s
4 LEWIS HAMILTON MERCEDES +4.608s
5 VALTTERI BOTTAS MERCEDES +6.119s
--> 6 ALEX ALBON ASTON MARTIN RED BULL RACING +11.663s
--> 8 PIERRE GASLY RED BULL TORO ROSSO HONDA +15.547s
--> 15 DANIIL KVYAT RED BULL TORO ROSSO HONDA +38.178s
https://f1i.com/news/355761-horner-beli ... fuels.html"It’s probably a combination. These things are never usually a silver bullet, it’s probably a combination of factors," Horner told Channel 4.
"Hats off to the Ferrari guys, they’ve found a way of extracting that horsepower and it’s up to the rest of the competition to narrow that gap."
https://en.hondaracingf1.com/races/2019 ... ?tab=setupTOYOHARU TANABE
TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, HONDA RACING F1
After the very high speeds in Monza, followed by the special requirements of a street circuit in Singapore, we come to a more conventional type of track in Sochi. Its main characteristics are a lot of 90 degree turns where, just like in Singapore, good driveability from the PU side will be an important factor. The straights are also quite long here and energy management will not be issue as we have plenty of data from the past. Despite experiencing some difficulties in Singapore, we still came away with a podium finish and now we have just a couple of days to prepare as well as possible, aiming for another positive result in Russia.
Through a Skype conversation in the tv programme Peptalk on Ziggo Sport father Jos looks back on the performance of his son in Russia, and he looks ahead to the remaining races of the season.
It should not take too long before he is going to deliver what we are all hoping for and he can challenge for the world title. “No, that is what we think too”, says the father of Aston Martin Red Bull Racing driver who today celebrated his twenty-second birthday: “We should have been closer, but that is more difficult than we thought. It is very frustrating. In the last races before the summer break it went really well, but after the summer break we did not progress while the other teams did. Max cannot change that, we depend on the team, the car is a bit behind, the engine is a bit behind, more work has to be done on this combination if we want to challenge for the world title next year.”
Verstappen senior continues: “We are very concerned if there will be any improvement in the short term, we will talk to the team to see what can be done. We depend on the equipment we get and at the moment it is not good enough.”
Asked if it is discouraging now and then, Jos answers: “Seeing Max’ performance, put him in a good car and he will challenge for the world championship. We are now working with Red Bull for a couple of years, but it still does not look that we will be able to challenge for the world title next year. Looking at the last couple of races it seems that we will be half a second short in Japan. Of course we will try everything to close the gap, but half a second you cannot catch up in two weeks’ time. The expectation was to close the gap to the competition, but at the moment it does not look like it. We have to work hard to close the gap, otherwise next year will be lost too.”
If there is a development work on progress and if it is ready before a race, if it works, you can be faster in a week too. It is not a work just starting after a race and finishing before next one. I don't know how he is talking in this way. He says you can not reach rivals level in 2 weeks but also he says we look like we can not catch rivals next season too. So when ? 2 weeks not enough, 3 months and months before those 3 months when Redbull started 2020 project also not enough, so how long time enough?
as things stands not even the Mercs will challenge Ferrari next year , Jos is right its frustrating however from what i collect of infos Ferrari explored the grey area in the regulations and can have about 50 hp more in certain moments during qualifying and race its kinda outsmarting the rivals, how long it will continue like that and how long it will take the other 3 manufacturers to discover this secret is yet to be seen, if it wasn't for the SC Mercs wouldn't win in Sochi.Wouter wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 22:00Through a Skype conversation in the tv programme Peptalk on Ziggo Sport father Jos looks back on the performance of his son in Russia, and he looks ahead to the remaining races of the season.
It should not take too long before he is going to deliver what we are all hoping for and he can challenge for the world title. “No, that is what we think too”, says the father of Aston Martin Red Bull Racing driver who today celebrated his twenty-second birthday: “We should have been closer, but that is more difficult than we thought. It is very frustrating. In the last races before the summer break it went really well, but after the summer break we did not progress while the other teams did. Max cannot change that, we depend on the team, the car is a bit behind, the engine is a bit behind, more work has to be done on this combination if we want to challenge for the world title next year.”
Verstappen senior continues: “We are very concerned if there will be any improvement in the short term, we will talk to the team to see what can be done. We depend on the equipment we get and at the moment it is not good enough.”
Asked if it is discouraging now and then, Jos answers: “Seeing Max’ performance, put him in a good car and he will challenge for the world championship. We are now working with Red Bull for a couple of years, but it still does not look that we will be able to challenge for the world title next year. Looking at the last couple of races it seems that we will be half a second short in Japan. Of course we will try everything to close the gap, but half a second you cannot catch up in two weeks’ time. The expectation was to close the gap to the competition, but at the moment it does not look like it. We have to work hard to close the gap, otherwise next year will be lost too.”