Shanghai to drop Grand Prix?

[WhiteBlue]

Pittpass asks that question after reports emerged about record low levels of paid attendance in 2008. They provide interviews with officials pointing towards a new view from the government.

Government has been the big investor in F1 with a 220 mil $ facility and a race committed to 2010 which is deep in the red. It transpires that a minority of Shanghai race goes purchased tickets at full price and that most seats occupied were given away or taken by gate crashers that officials did not seriously try to prevent.

The Chinese reccon they have achieved what they want and the facility is busy 200 days a year with car nuts experiencing top gear feeling in a world class facility. They have kicked off as much car madness as they can handle and do not need to bow to Bernies extortions any more.

The nice term for this is win/win. They say that they want to create a win win situation. This means they do not want to loose again to Bernie. Knowing the Ring master he will simply take the race elsewhere where more money can be made this time.

Interesting perspective.

[West]

I could care less about this race, even if there have been some nail-biters in the past.

[Conceptual]

Why doesn't Bernie and Max's rhetoric about cost sustainability in F1 extend to the venues?

[Michiba]

have they actually try to reduce the costs of hosting a race? We've lost canada, and almost lost melbourne. What are their initiatives to reduce the costs to the hosting cities?

[Chaparral]

Its been a disaster from day one not just F1 but also MotoGP (the latter surprising as its motorcycles and its China). They have lost tens of millions each year - is it a surprise - well no. The circuit like most probably have it booked most of the year and actually make money on the venture of the every day business.

If anyone wants reality back in Formula One (sorry Grand Prix racing to use the correct term) then it has to have a global reference. In that case it needs the F1 circus to put in to the whole game not just take take take as it has in the last decade or so. If this is truly a global sport that wants to grow and sustain a market then it would make far better sense to approach it in a true joint venture agreement where costs and profits are shared on a variable scale all across the world and with all players be they venues first and foremost, TV income distributed between all, teams,promoters etc. Currently its just a mission by Ecclestone to extract the most amount of dollars by government or other means + have a purpose built venue made available at no cost to the circus - well even the Barnum & Bailey Circus ran out of viable venues as will Ecclestone.

What we have had for at least a decade is a manipulated 'sport' and manipulated 'results' - I have totally lost interest in fact I did about a decade ago - yes I still have a passion for racing and a return to Grand Prix racing but not the bloody bullshit thats served up year in year out by Ecclestone and the circus. The sooner this circus big top burns down the better and Im sure something of substance will rise from the ashes

[DaveKillens]

Well, the Honeymoon is over, and the Chinese organizers are choking on Bernie's demands ... just too much.

[Carlos]

All these races will be missed. Here in Canada all the levels of government entered talks trying to salvage the event, just like the Australian government and the mainland Chinese authorities have. All three races are important as gateways to international markets and as important tourism/business showcases for the host countries. I'm not going to think of these events as 'lost.' They just won't pay the price Ecclestone demands. If 5 or 6 other Grand Prix's refused Bernie's extortion, we might see some changes in who controls Formula 1. I can do without these events for a few years if it will help topple Bernie's stranglehold on the sport.

EDIT This evening listening to the BBC there was a report on the Canadian GP ... something about the first time in almost 50 ye4ars there won't be a race in Canada and a comment about Ecclestone's "impossible" demands.

[donskar]

This is one of the best posts I've ever seen in this forum. =D> I am sputtering mad and probably could not write a cogent thought, so I'll just bold the portions I think are the most apropos.

I continue to hope in a sort of nihilstic way that Farce One will finally topple under its corrupt top heaviness and be replaced by something a LITTLE less corrupt, a LITTLE more pure - IndyCar is one possibility.

If anyone wants reality back in Formula One (sorry Grand Prix racing to use the correct term) then it has to have a global reference. In that case it needs the F1 circus to put in to the whole game not just take take take as it has in the last decade or so. If this is truly a global sport that wants to grow and sustain a market then it would make far better sense to approach it in a true joint venture agreement where costs and profits are shared on a variable scale all across the world and with all players be they venues first and foremost, TV income distributed between all, teams,promoters etc. Currently its just a mission by Ecclestone to extract the most amount of dollars by government or other means + have a purpose built venue made available at no cost to the circus - well even the Barnum & Bailey Circus ran out of viable venues as will Ecclestone.

What we have had for at least a decade is a manipulated 'sport' and manipulated 'results' - I have totally lost interest in fact I did about a decade ago - yes I still have a passion for racing and a return to Grand Prix racing but not the bloody bullshit thats served up year in year out by Ecclestone and the circus. The sooner this circus big top burns down the better and Im sure something of substance will rise from the ashes

[Ciro Pabón]

I think Shanghai owners have to give away tickets because you have to build a fan base and that takes some time. China has few cars per person, so I don't know how closely they follow Formula One, compared with other sports.

I have the impression, after looking for many tracks websites, that the more active countries in Formula One have more active sites, while many "web-absent" tracks rely more on an official involvement, that is, government agencies building and helping to mantain a track by impulse of a local automobile club.

Maybe if you want to build tracks as a big long term capital investment, you have to use government agencies, that is, FOM has replaced the role of the Road Club, and maybe FOM is using that point in a legitimate way.

Frankly, I don't know how can you end with a 200 million facility design, given than perhaps less than 5% of that amount can be devoted to build an super-hyper excellent 5 km road, but try to get financing for that!

However, you can imagine that new projects are more an international class hotel that happens to have a Formula One track than a track of old like Nordschliefe.

That is something FOM is using. As a road builder, that it's interesting. Good or bad, boring or entertaining, I think we're living in an age of new design for tracks. Surely we can learn something from them, even if some of the old tracks are abandoned.

For example, I like the curve number one at China, I confess. I also like the curve before the backstretch. They are hard on drivers and entertaining to watch.

When you try to estimate the width of the path of the cars in a curve I end imagining that this kind of curves have a more wide one, which "proves" to me that they're harder to take or that they offer more lines.

Sepang Circular curve, narrow race line


Sepang Spiral curve, wide race line at the exit


I confess I was puzzled by some of the new designs for run off areas. Piqued by that, I ended thinking that "losing the rear end seems more common of what I've been taught.

For example, check the path of the skid marks at the exit of curve seven in Catalunya: modern tracks don't have an exit barrier so close to the track on the left of a left-hand curve exit. Put yourselves in place of the drivers who made those marks; notice how they continue from the asphalt into the grass and the barrier. I think there are at least 10 of them.

I imagine that the skid marks on this track shows that distance to the barrier on the left is too short


This means to me that the new programs for predicting the envolvent of the trajectories are better than conventional design and that you can learn something from them. I could show more examples, but I don't want to go on forever.

Yes, I know that sounds too rational. Maybe we can put it in this way: few people appreciated the technical improvements of XIII century cathedrals while they were built. Time had to pass for us to appreciate them.

[timbo]

I think Chineese GP suffers from a)lack of tourist (look at Hungarian GP - I think Hungarians are actually minority, while there's plenty of Germans, Finns etc...) b) overall difference between upper and middle class in China, which is the problem of many developing countries. Maybe oganizers should target GP infrastructure towards ultra-rich people, offering them exclusive luxuries. That also may attract some rich-people from other countries.
I thing the bright side is that China is such a huuge market (and the one manufactures still have to conquer) so there would be a pressure on BE to save a Grand Prix.

[autolover]

Too pity about that! I hope Shanghai Government find more sponsors,raise their ads to keep their cost.It becomes a burden to Shanghai every year,hope reserve it more days!