Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

[Lotus102]

I am not sure about Ricciardo now that he has had to suffer through a season in a car that is clearly nowhere close to the front. He might have changed his mind.

Danny would go to Mercedes in a heartbeat, surely. He's said he thinks he can beat Lewis and it's obvious now that Renault aren't going to catch up like they thought, at least not soon. Mercedes are very fair with their drivers, Valtteri's only been made wingman after he's become wingman on his own.

And Mercedes have only signed VB for 1 year, again.

I think that’s because they have Ocon and Russell waiting in the wings. My gut feeling is that Toto will bypass Ocon and put Russell in as Hamilton’s teammate in 2021, as Cevert to his Stewart, to take over as team leader when the time comes if it works out. By that time, RIC will be getting on a bit in F1 terms.

[izzy]

I think that’s because they have Ocon and Russell waiting in the wings. My gut feeling is that Toto will bypass Ocon and put Russell in as Hamilton’s teammate in 2021, as Cevert to his Stewart, to take over as team leader when the time comes if it works out. By that time, RIC will be getting on a bit in F1 terms.

it's confusing because Russell signed for 3 years and Ocon for 2, ie thru 2021, and Toto has said he honours contracts. But i suppose contracts can be bought and sold, and perhaps Toto was just keeping his options open, cos he could. He can watch and see how they each do, knowing that they'd all love to be in his car

[Jolle]

I think that’s because they have Ocon and Russell waiting in the wings. My gut feeling is that Toto will bypass Ocon and put Russell in as Hamilton’s teammate in 2021, as Cevert to his Stewart, to take over as team leader when the time comes if it works out. By that time, RIC will be getting on a bit in F1 terms.

it's confusing because Russell signed for 3 years and Ocon for 2, ie thru 2021, and Toto has said he honours contracts. But i suppose contracts can be bought and sold, and perhaps Toto was just keeping his options open, cos he could. He can watch and see how they each do, knowing that they'd all love to be in his car

He could still honor the contract when it says that Ocon can leave for x amount of money by the end of 2020. Contracts are more complex then just the end date

[izzy]

He could still honor the contract when it says that Ocon can leave for x amount of money by the end of 2020. Contracts are more complex then just the end date

Lewis' contract is over 100 pages but as for Esteban:

Esteban Ocon’s two-year deal to drive for Renault does not include an escape clause which would allow him to return to Mercedes in 2021.

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff confirmed Ocon will be unable to return to the team in 2021 if Lewis Hamilton or Valtteri Bottas leave at the end of the 2020 F1 season, when their current contracts team expire.

“No there is no clause,” Wolff confirmed at Monza. “He is a full-fledged Renault works driver for the next two years and with certain options afterwards on both sides. No clause to come back in 2021.”

https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/11/oco ... s-in-2021/

it is always F1 of course, but as far as the contract goes, that's it

[Fulcrum]

yes good points. Ferrari are between a rock and a hard place really, with Seb having lost 80 points 2 years in a row with errors, and Charles being only 22 and so he's obviously quite error prone as well. but i don't think they can fix it with swapping either of them can they? They have to hang in there with them and do the best they can

I'm sure both drivers will be retained, but Ferrari need to impose stricter rules of engagement.

Both drivers have also shown a willingness to take matters into their own hands by defying team orders this year. That needs to stop.

[Phil]

I am more interested to see what Max will do beyond 2020.

I always felt he had a deal with Mercedes for a seat, but with Hamilton possibly extending, i’m not that sure.

Will Toto stick around at Mercedes?
Will Mercedes continue to stick with Hamilton and try to beat more [driver] records?

Or will they attempt to sign Max at the expense of Hamilton as the potential WDC he will be?
Would Max go there if Hamilton is there too?

And/or will RedBull throw all their money at Max to retain him at all cost and will that offer and the prospect of winning with them & Honda be enough to convince him to stay?

[raymondu999]

while Bottas is a very good wing man he is an errors prone he crash and throw away wins like he did in Monza lap 51,something gets on Toto's nerve.
i think Mercs will try to get RIC on board.. but if it happens will RIC accept ? i do think its a good possibility.

Which year are we talking about here? I don't think RIC will take the deal. I mean, it would be like reversing his RBR departure imo

[raymondu999]

It would take a huge investment, but Red Bull have the money, so how do you fancy STR (or whatever thy will be named ) with Vettel and Gasly?

They have the Honda engine and for a comparatively low cost could be in with the top 4.

(Do not see RBR accepting it as it would cost them points )

It takes 2 to tango though; why would Vettel take that deal?

[NathanOlder]

I am more interested to see what Max will do beyond 2020.

I always felt he had a deal with Mercedes for a seat, but with Hamilton possibly extending, i’m not that sure.

Will Toto stick around at Mercedes?
Will Mercedes continue to stick with Hamilton and try to beat more [driver] records?

Or will they attempt to sign Max at the expense of Hamilton as the potential WDC he will be?
Would Max go there if Hamilton is there too?

And/or will RedBull throw all their money at Max to retain him at all cost and will that offer and the prospect of winning with them & Honda be enough to convince him to stay?

I think now RedBull have to give Max a blank cheque. Without Max , RedBull are in big trouble. They have no hope with any other current RedBull driver/young driver, they would have to look outside and they never have done. The only thing they could do is beg Danny or Seb to come back.

[selvam_e2002]

I think, in 2021(if Still Vettel stick around in F1 for 2020)

Vettel to RB.
Max to Mclaren(It is a best choice for him in 2021)

I don't think either Ferrari nor Mec will take him.

Ferrari may go with Ric replacement for Vettel if Ric Okay with it which I doubt.

I heard that Alonso pushing for a seat in 2021 so Ferrari may end up with Alonso for two years then look for wing man for Lecrec or they replace Alsonso with Sainz.

[loner]

while Bottas is a very good wing man he is an errors prone he crash and throw away wins like he did in Monza lap 51,something gets on Toto's nerve.
i think Mercs will try to get RIC on board.. but if it happens will RIC accept ? i do think its a good possibility.

Which year are we talking about here? I don't think RIC will take the deal. I mean, it would be like reversing his RBR departure imo

ofcourse 2021 but yeah thats too long distance i should see how 2020 will unfold.

[Jolle]

I think, in 2021(if Still Vettel stick around in F1 for 2020)

Vettel to RB.
Max to Mclaren(It is a best choice for him in 2021)

I don't think either Ferrari nor Mec will take him.

Ferrari may go with Ric replacement for Vettel if Ric Okay with it which I doubt.

I heard that Alonso pushing for a seat in 2021 so Ferrari may end up with Alonso for two years then look for wing man for Lecrec or they replace Alsonso with Sainz.

Why would McLaren be the best option for Verstappen? It isn't a works team...

Ferrari is set for the coming future with Leclerc, don't see Alonso playing wingman. They will try to keep Vettel as long as possible (Philip Morris likes their world champions) and if he leaves, they should/would go for a driver like Bottas. Fast, reliable and not a direct threat to the main driver.

If Verstappen decides to leave RedBull it will be for Mercedes.

For Alonso, I only can see a path with Renault next to Ocon in 2021. The other works teams are quite clearly not interested.

I feel like RIC has missed the opportunities a bit, he is good but the new generation is steaming ahead quite quickly.

I think Vettel will do a step backwards at Ferrari, in pay and privileges. Taking up more a role Kimi had in his second Ferrari stint and maybe be a bit more relaxed on track.

As for Hamilton, he might go on for another ten years.... still single, in good health and with his diet able to maintain his level of performance longer.

[izzy]

I'm sure both drivers will be retained, but Ferrari need to impose stricter rules of engagement.

Both drivers have also shown a willingness to take matters into their own hands by defying team orders this year. That needs to stop.

F1 drivers are so hard to control aren't they! and at the same time they're so sensitive about their egos. Teams generally never solve these problems, as they're all a bit in awe or timid or whatever, and it all happens in the moment. in 2014 Mercedes should've just sacked Rosberg over Monaco, but instead they did 4 years of bitter infighting. in 2008 before Fuji Ron went on and on at Lewis over not needing too much and play it safe, and then Lewis immediately does T1, followed by 3 days in his hotel room beating himself up about it! . I really think Mattia mostly has to let them both learn by themselves, just make sure they feel treated equally, as far as he can.

But it was typical of F1 teams that they let Charles keep pole and get his sneaky win in Monza, so then that's a Result and he won't care about anything else. Meanwhile Seb feels mistreated and off they go. in Brazil Charles gives him a harmless little squeeze and Seb has to give it back +200%. What can Mattia say? Nothing that'll make any difference, unless he literally suspends one of them for a race which he's not gonna do

But so anyway i think everyone is quite settled now. Honda have obviously caught up and Red Bull is a great team so Max will just stay, Lewis will stay at Mercedes so it's all quiet for now

[Wynters]

Or will they attempt to sign Max at the expense of Hamilton as the potential WDC he will be?

If it's an either or, then I suspect marketing will always play a key role*. Hamilton has a much more developed brand, particularly in America.

*Of course, driver skill may also be a key requirement but, if Mercedes have a relatively faster package (or significantly slower) compared to their opponents, it doesn't matter who is in the driving seat skill-wise.

[Big Tea]

It would take a huge investment, but Red Bull have the money, so how do you fancy STR (or whatever thy will be named ) with Vettel and Gasly?

They have the Honda engine and for a comparatively low cost could be in with the top 4.

(Do not see RBR accepting it as it would cost them points )

It takes 2 to tango though; why would Vettel take that deal?

If Ferrari gave him his marching orders he might well do. Although I think Merc would probably have a place for him too