Toro Rosso again 100% owned by Red Bull

[WhiteBlue]

I must say that this comes at a big surprise. There are more questions than answers in the news clip on the front page.

What kind of role will Berger play?

Is this a first step to selling the team, which was for sale since last season.

[xpensive]

Could it be that the good Gerhard relized that the true costs of running a an F1 at that level was a little too much even for him?

[axle]

It could just be that no-one was interested in 50% of a team...so Berger was bought out (as that's the only way 100% ownership could be done).

Or it could be a sign that Didi isn't sure WHICH Redbull team to sell...

[Conceptual]

It could just be that no-one was interested in 50% of a team...so Berger was bought out (as that's the only way 100% ownership could be done).

Or it could be a sign that Didi isn't sure WHICH Redbull team to sell...

Well, considering that STR has won a race, and RBR has yet to break 3rd place, it may just be that...

Or maybe DM realized that he is in a better position to increase co-op between the teams if they are both owned 100%...

And to ditch Gerhard would be a bit of a brain disease I would think. STR under Berger and Tost has done very well for their size. Maybe this is just the way to get more than 160 people on the team?

Who knows, but I feel for Vettel with Webber out till race 1, and now the possibility of being sold off...

Does anyone feel that this may be in response to Webber being out? Since the best way to overcome his time out would be to combine the winter testing of both STR and RBR, and have feedback from both teams instead of Vettel + test driver only...


I dunno, but I thought Ferrari would buy Red Bull's 50%, and let Berger run the show.

I guess that is F1 tho.

[donskar]

I dunno, but I thought Ferrari would buy Red Bull's 50%, and let Berger run the show.

Glad to see Ferrari NOT buying the team. Focus is a key to success, and Ferrari has enough on their plate already.

Now that he owns 100%, DM should find it easier and cleaner to sell off the team. Under current conditions, I can't see a lot of potential buyers throwing money around. I'd hate to see the grid get smaller, but major sponsors and potential sponsors/buyers are cutting back marketing budgets.

[WhiteBlue]

One thing we can be sure of is Gerhard's love for the sport. He certainly is not in it for the money, but he is too good a business man to sink money into it at the rate Red Bull can afford.

I would be very surprised to see Berger go away from F1 forever. He has proved beyond any doubt that he can transform a team better than anybody who ever advised Mateschitz. This obviously includes Helmut Marko.

He told an Austria Newspaper that he is leaving the team:

I have lots of fun to compete in F1, but making up the numbers is not for me.

He went on to say that he thinks under current regulations Toro Rosso has no chance to continue with the improvements. This is probably a reference to the failed attempts to curb budgets and the failure to find an investor who would fit his requirements of sponsorship.

[Conceptual]

One thing we can be sure of is Gerhard's love for the sport. He certainly is not in it for the money, but he is too good a business man to sink money into it at the rate Red Bull can afford.

I would be very surprised to see Berger go away from F1 forever. He has proved beyond any doubt that he can transform a team better than anybody who ever advised Mateschitz. This obviously includes Helmut Marko.

He told an Austria Newspaper that he is leaving the team:

I have lots of fun to compete in F1, but making up the numbers is not for me.

He went on to say that he thinks under current regulations Toro Rosso has no chance to continue with the improvements. This is probably a reference to the failed attempts to curb budgets and the failure to find an investor who would fit his requirements of sponsorship.

So, will Berger stay on until STR is sold?

[axle]

From the interview I read Berger has a logistics company involved in STR and they will continue to be a supplier/partner.

Not actually sure why GB is stepping away from the team, unless he's had enough and done what he wanted to...I guess he knows the Vettel win is in all likely hood as good as it will get.

[WhiteBlue]

From the interview I read Berger has a logistics company involved in STR and they will continue to be a supplier/partner.

Not actually sure why GB is stepping away from the team, unless he's had enough and done what he wanted to...I guess he knows the Vettel win is in all likely hood as good as it will get.

Bourdais commented that Red Bull will cut budget for Toro Rosso and will probably get a pay driver (Sato?). GB will not continue to make up the numbers he said. So he rather calls it a day than go backward. It makes sense to me. STR are now set to become a true secondary team for RBR.

[xpensive]

The last part akes a whole lot of sense to me WhiteBlue, not even Matechitz can afford paying for two competing top teams, when at the same time you are not sure about what the new Concord agreement will bring.

[DaveKillens]

Berger bought half of the team from Red Bull founder Dietrich Mateschitz in 2006 while his compatriot acquired a similar stake in Berger's haulage business. Mateschitz will keep a high stake in Berger's family business.
Usually, deals of this magnitude are carefully considered, and decisions are not rushed. Most likely around half way through the season (around the time Vettel was signed to Red Bull?) did Berger and DM start to consider their options. And what was happening back then? Well, Red Bull was plagued by an engine supplier who could not deliver the power. And it showed in the standings. Red Bull never really improved, while STR suddenly found themselves punching above their weight. And to top it off with an earned win at Monza was the cherry on top of the cake. But this went against DM's vision, which was clearly that Red Bull was number one, while STR followed along in trail, picking up scraps. The expectations of the beginning of the year for Red Bull fell far short, in fact it was almost a disaster for them.
"Red Bull will now run Toro Rosso alone," Mateschitz said. "As well as remaining a partner of Berger Logistik."
Hmmmmm .... Berger sure is in a nice position .... it almost seems that Berger held the upper hand in negotiations, and comes out well off. But now DM has total control of STR, and this team which has enjoyed a GREAT year, will revert to it's lot in life, to follow and support Red Bull.

As mentioned, this deal asks more questions than it gives answers. What is Webber's position now? If he fails to best Vettel is he on the way out? Who will supply engines for the teams now? Will it continue to be Ferrari for STR while Renault supplies Red Bull? What will happen to Tost? Will he go to the number one team? Most likely.
I expect Red Bull to have the best drivers.. Vettel and Webber. I expect Tost to go to Red Bull, and I expect that DM demands significant results from Red Bull.

[Conceptual]

The engine question is a good one...

Will RBR take the Ferrari engines back from STR, or does the team sell better with Ferrari power in the back.

Is the engine leveling going forward? Is Renault allowed to up their engine performance to the level of the Ferrari?

As was said, more questions than answers on this one.

TOMBA, why dont you pick up the phone and call Didi, and see what the hell is going on??? LOL

[xpensive]

All most valid aspects, politics and engines, but I would not exclude the raw realities of economy. STR has been for sale since early this year, while surely the downturn in the worlds economy has not made that any easier.

Possibly the intention was for Berger to be the buyer all along?

But as Berger naturally had no intention of spending money of his own on just running the team, without a sponsor other than Red Bull, he had little support for pursuing his ambitions to make STR a top team.

[guy_smiley]

Just a quick question...

RBR and STR will both be running the same Red Bull Technology chassis in 2009, as they did in 2008, is that correct? And then in 2010 STR will have to be a constructor in their own right, correct?

Thanks...

[WhiteBlue]

Just a quick question...

RBR and STR will both be running the same Red Bull Technology chassis in 2009, as they did in 2008, is that correct? And then in 2010 STR will have to be a constructor in their own right, correct?

Thanks...

I don't think so. Bernie offered a new deal to teams with 10 years in F1 and after the Force India / McMerc deal we have to assume that the deal stands. STR are expected to continue with RBT chassis.