Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[saviour stivala]

Whereas TDs were issued because of some innuendos, it was confirmed by the FIA that nothing was found amiss with the Ferrari PU.

I am sorry, but when did FIA give a statement like that? Could you please direct me to the source? Thank you

@Aral, Could you please direct me to the source too? I can not find this anywhere. Thank you .

Maybe you could find when did the FIA found anything 'amiss' with the FERRARI PU.

[aral]

I have no intention into getting into an argument over this, but FIA checked the Ferrari PUs and found nothing that was illegal. If they had, then they would have acted accordingly, and rightly so. Further, the Ferrari PU was not the only unit to be checked and the TDs were issued to ALL teams.

[Polite]

Whereas TDs were issued because of some innuendos, it was confirmed by the FIA that nothing was found amiss with the Ferrari PU.

I am sorry, but when did FIA give a statement like that? Could you please direct me to the source? Thank you

@Aral, Could you please direct me to the source too? I can not find this anywhere. Thank you .

Fia writes official announcements only in the event of irregularities!
While there were a lot of unoffcial statemets by members of the FOM/FIA about regularity of the Ferrari pus after the checks (i can remember of Brawn after the USA GP..)..

[dans79]

The fuel flows through the fuel flow sensor under constant pressure. For there to be backflow there must be opposed pressure which is greater then the flow through sensor pressure.

Again you miss the point. The fuel pump is not perfect, it will generate pulses. Thus presure won't be constant, so some amount of backflow will happen. The frequency and amount of backflow will be small and system dependent, but it's still there.

[saviour stivala]

There will be no 'backflow' when the engine is running. The fuel pot inside the fuel tank is pressurised with fuel by 3 or 4 fuel lift-pumps lifting fuel from different parts of the fuel tank. the pressured fuel from the fuel pot passes through the fuel flow sensor according with the engine fuel consumed.

[dans79]

There will be no 'backflow' when the engine is running. The fuel pot inside the fuel tank is pressurised with fuel by 3 or 4 fuel lift-pumps lifting fuel from different parts of the fuel tank. the pressured fuel from the fuel pot passes through the fuel flow sensor according with the engine fuel consumed.

The world it's not that simple. Backflow is backflow it doesn't matter if it travels 0.0000001mm, or 1m.

It might momentarily flow backwards a thousand times a second depending on pressure waves in the fuel lines. It will all ultimately end up in the combustion chamber but that does not negate the fact that it happens and that the fuel sensor must compensate for that.

[Big Tea]

can I ask someone who knows, what would be the effect on the sensor reading if the liquid was airated?
Not to the extent of being a moose, but considerably reducing the density. Air could be separated after the sensor and before the rail or high pressure pump could it not?

[siskue2005]

I have no intention into getting into an argument over this, but FIA checked the Ferrari PUs and found nothing that was illegal. If they had, then they would have acted accordingly, and rightly so. .

But didnt FIA introduce new rule of 2 sensors to be added in the car in 2020 AFTER they seized Ferrari parts at Brazil?

The governing body investigated a trio of fuel systems after the Brazilian Grand Prix, one believed to be from a Ferrari, another from a Ferrari customer team and a third from a non-Ferrari powered car.

On Wednesday, the FIA issued its latest technical directive – a third in four weeks – instructing teams they will be required to add a second FIA-controlled sensor in 2020.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motors ... 01058/amp/

So they have indeed acted after that inspection

[MtthsMlw]

I have no intention into getting into an argument over this, but FIA checked the Ferrari PUs and found nothing that was illegal. If they had, then they would have acted accordingly, and rightly so. .

But didnt FIA introduce new rule of 2 sensors to be added in the car in 2020 AFTER they seized Ferrari parts at Brazil?

The governing body investigated a trio of fuel systems after the Brazilian Grand Prix, one believed to be from a Ferrari, another from a Ferrari customer team and a third from a non-Ferrari powered car.

On Wednesday, the FIA issued its latest technical directive – a third in four weeks – instructing teams they will be required to add a second FIA-controlled sensor in 2020.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motors ... 01058/amp/

So they have indeed acted after that inspection

Furthermore, the Ferrari PU was not the only unit to be checked and the TDs were issued to ALL teams

The parts seized was from The Scuderia ferrari team, Ferrari customer team and another non Ferrari team,(which nodoby knows which team)... so are we now suggesting that it was that non Ferrari team which was at wrong?

IIRC the second sensor stuff was known before that, not sure though..

>which nodoby knows which team
AMuS reported today that it was Red Bull

[siskue2005]

IIRC the second sensor stuff was known before that, not sure though

Yeah true, the whole thing is a big mess, mostly due to the FIA hiding everything and not being transparent

[dans79]

The governing body investigated a trio of fuel systems after the Brazilian Grand Prix, one believed to be from a Ferrari, another from a Ferrari customer team and a third from a non-Ferrari powered car.

On Wednesday, the FIA issued its latest technical directive – a third in four weeks – instructing teams they will be required to add a second FIA-controlled sensor in 2020.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motors ... 01058/amp/

So they have indeed acted after that inspection

If RTL is to be believed then it was Ferrari, Hass, & Red Bull.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/fia-conf ... check.html

Germany's RTL claims that along with Ferrari's, the fuel systems of a Ferrari-powered Haas and a Red Bull-Honda were also seized by the FIA in Brazil.

And a spokesperson for the FIA told the German broadcaster that it is not right to say the fuel system was "confiscated". Instead, it is a routine "check".

[sosic2121]

There will be no 'backflow' when the engine is running. The fuel pot inside the fuel tank is pressurised with fuel by 3 or 4 fuel lift-pumps lifting fuel from different parts of the fuel tank. the pressured fuel from the fuel pot passes through the fuel flow sensor according with the engine fuel consumed.

The world it's not that simple. Backflow is backflow it doesn't matter if it travels 0.0000001mm, or 1m.

It might momentarily flow backwards a thousand times a second depending on pressure waves in the fuel lines. It will all ultimately end up in the combustion chamber but that does not negate the fact that it happens and that the fuel sensor must compensate for that.

I thought the point was to trick sensors in a way it reads lower, but what you are suggesting would trick sensors in a way it would register more fuel than it's actually used.

[saviour stivala]

can I ask someone who knows, what would be the effect on the sensor reading if the liquid was airated?
Not to the extent of being a moose, but considerably reducing the density. Air could be separated after the sensor and before the rail or high pressure pump could it not?

The entire fuel delivery system is under positive pressure (from pressurised fuel collector pot to injectors) and this is the primery reason that fuel airation is eleminated.

[Tommy Cookers]

... the most advanced ultrasonic meters integrate the fuel flow over the entire pipe diameter, in other words they take a velocity snap-shot of the fluid and it is easy to find out what flow regime is occurring in the fluid. Any special temperature manipulation can also be captured by the sensor. Forcing the sensor to under-report the fuel has to be done by some serious outside interference!

the fuel motion through the meter in the calibration lab is presumably constant aka steady, and 1 dimensional
the fuel motion through the meter in the car is (relatively to this) as inconstant and 3 dimensional as may be ?
so eg the velocity snapshot isn't necessarily perfectly representative of the flow rate
eg so-called flow reversion (ie varying partial flow reversion) obtains even in our road cars exhaust and induction systems

neither (maybe) is the electronic sampling always perfectly representative of the actual velocity field
the F1 car carries at close range intensely varying EM fields - these not limited by the rule book
yes I have seen cases of accidental interference in less hostile EM environments

[Pierce89]

Whereas TDs were issued because of some innuendos, it was confirmed by the FIA that nothing was found amiss with the Ferrari PU.

I am sorry, but when did FIA give a statement like that? Could you please direct me to the source? Thank you

@Aral, Could you please direct me to the source too? I can not find this anywhere. Thank you .

Fia writes official announcements only in the event of irregularities!
While there were a lot of unoffcial statemets by members of the FOM/FIA about regularity of the Ferrari pus after the checks (i can remember of Brawn after the USA GP..)..

Where did you come up with the idea that the FIA only creates new technical directives when they find irregularities in a competitors car? There are a couple dozen new technical directives over the course of an average calendar year in f1. In fact, it’s a common practice for teams to put forward an idea that they never had any intention of using, in hopes that the idea that the FIA will publish a new technical directive in any area where they suspect their opponents of having an advantage. The only difference this year is that Red Bull are the first team to ever try to claim that a new technical directive that happened at track with twenty something corners and a low power sensitivity was evidence that Ferrari had been cheating. I suspect it was actually aimed at destabilizing Ferrari in a time period where Ferrari could’ve not only thrown away 2nd place for this season, but also get rattled and upset while plowing through the most important time period for designing/developing the 2020 car. Red Bull has always been extremely competent in the area of extremely ruthless and Machiavellian politics(In fact, they are the strongest team in that area, and by a large margin).