Formula E

[AJI]

Some interesting details in the FIA chassis tender for gen3 (starting 2022/23) CxS target is 0.6, the average for F1 is more like 1.35, CzS target it 1.5-2.0 where F1 is more like 5.5, crazy numbers, very slippery cars.

Possibly moving to 20" wheels just as F1 joins the 21 century with their 18s . Front axle energy recovery up to 250kW, rear axle increasing to 350kW max, total power 350kW (~470bhp) in quali, 300kW in race. Battery weight dropping to 284kg from 385kg but slightly less capacity 51kWh not 54kWh, but they want to include fast charge to add 4kW in a 30s pitstop.

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

As long as it is the min time regulated and not the amount or energy added it could be good. If ever there was a road associated requirement to develop, its rapid charging.

Are they going to add actual racing tyres and a tyre change to the pit stop? Or are we just going to sit there and watch paint dry for 30 seconds?
A tyre change and a hot swappable x?kWh auxiliary battery pack would make it more exciting.

[Big Tea]

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

As long as it is the min time regulated and not the amount or energy added it could be good. If ever there was a road associated requirement to develop, its rapid charging.

Are they going to add actual racing tyres and a tyre change to the pit stop? Or are we just going to sit there and watch paint dry for 30 seconds?
A tyre change and a hot swappable x?kWh auxiliary battery pack would make it more exciting.

But they are not all going to stop at the same time, so there will still be action while they are stopped. In fact, it
should lead to more on track battles as the returning cars catch up.

[jjn9128]

Some interesting details in the FIA chassis tender for gen3 (starting 2022/23) CxS target is 0.6, the average for F1 is more like 1.35, CzS target it 1.5-2.0 where F1 is more like 5.5, crazy numbers, very slippery cars.

Possibly moving to 20" wheels just as F1 joins the 21 century with their 18s . Front axle energy recovery up to 250kW, rear axle increasing to 350kW max, total power 350kW (~470bhp) in quali, 300kW in race. Battery weight dropping to 284kg from 385kg but slightly less capacity 51kWh not 54kWh, but they want to include fast charge to add 4kW in a 30s pitstop.

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

Can look in the documents here
http://legal.fia.com/web/appeloffre.nsf ... penelement
http://legal.fia.com/web/appeloffre.nsf ... penelement

[MtthsMlw]

Charge rate of 600kw or 450kw is really impressive. Current EVs max out at around 250kw.
Without losses that would put 5kwh in the battery.

[AJI]

Charge rate of 600kw or 450kw is really impressive. Current EVs max out at around 250kw.
Without losses that would put 5kwh in the battery.

A whole 5kWh... I was once an enthusiastic believer that we were less than a decade away from this, 20 years ago...
No offence meant

[bill shoe]

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

It's a race feature, not a technical shortcoming. Seems likely each car will have option to stop for bit more power or skip the stop for track position.

Will they allow front-axle drive, or only front axle recovery?

[jjn9128]

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

It's a race feature, not a technical shortcoming. Seems likely each car will have option to stop for bit more power or skip the stop for track position.

Will they allow front-axle drive, or only front axle recovery?

atm it's just going to be recovery from the front axle - which is going to be a common part across all teams with the rear drivetrain and suspension as now. I think if they bring in a fast charge it will be compulsory.

[AJI]

... I think if they bring in a fast charge it will be compulsory.

It would have to be compulsory, unless the races are deliberately one lap longer than the battery capacity? Then you can roll the dice on slower lap time or safety car or VSC and ditch the stop...

[piast9]

It would have to be compulsory, unless the races are deliberately one lap longer than the battery capacity? Then you can roll the dice on slower lap time or safety car or VSC and ditch the stop...

I think even now races are significantly "longer" than the battery capacity. They cannot go on the full swing all the time. In my opinion the recharging should not be compulsory and it would help mix things a bit.

The nominal battery capacity would be smaller than it is now but cars would be also lighter (100 kg lighter battery pack is a lot) which should compensate for that.

[Andres125sx]

Some interesting details in the FIA chassis tender for gen3 (starting 2022/23) CxS target is 0.6, the average for F1 is more like 1.35, CzS target it 1.5-2.0 where F1 is more like 5.5, crazy numbers, very slippery cars.

Possibly moving to 20" wheels just as F1 joins the 21 century with their 18s . Front axle energy recovery up to 250kW, rear axle increasing to 350kW max, total power 350kW (~470bhp) in quali, 300kW in race. Battery weight dropping to 284kg from 385kg but slightly less capacity 51kWh not 54kWh, but they want to include fast charge to add 4kW in a 30s pitstop.

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

Can look in the documents here
http://legal.fia.com/web/appeloffre.nsf ... penelement
http://legal.fia.com/web/appeloffre.nsf ... penelement

Thanks, that was very interesting, at least once I passed all those boring and repetitive pages and found the interesting data

So 2 scenarios with 51 and 49kWh batteries providing 300/350kW or 250/300kW. But I think 2kWh is a too little difference. Also fast charging will be 12C for 51kWh batteries and 9C for 49kWh...

I guess their intention is trying different routes, but from my airmchair that looks like too little difference in size and weight to compensate that difference in power and fast charging



Also, if Nikola announcement about the new battery technology is true, their battery would be several orders of magnitude better than these requirements and would make fast charging unnecessary. But that´s a very big if...

[Andres125sx]

Some interesting details in the FIA chassis tender for gen3 (starting 2022/23) CxS target is 0.6, the average for F1 is more like 1.35, CzS target it 1.5-2.0 where F1 is more like 5.5, crazy numbers, very slippery cars.

Possibly moving to 20" wheels just as F1 joins the 21 century with their 18s . Front axle energy recovery up to 250kW, rear axle increasing to 350kW max, total power 350kW (~470bhp) in quali, 300kW in race. Battery weight dropping to 284kg from 385kg but slightly less capacity 51kWh not 54kWh, but they want to include fast charge to add 4kW in a 30s pitstop.

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

As long as it is the min time regulated and not the amount or energy added it could be good. If ever there was a road associated requirement to develop, its rapid charging.

That´s true, but I don´t think 10C charging is necessary at all. No need to charge from 0% to 100% in 6 minutes, if someone need fast charging to continue a trip even a quarter of that will be more than enough (25% in 6 minutes, or 12% in 3 minutes or 50% in 12 minutes) to reach home and charge at more reasonable currents. Charger, wiring and net requirements will be a lot more reasonable and batteries will be very glad to avoid that sort of currents. 600kW charging is just crazy (for road use), current ultra-fast charging at 250kW is more than enough

[Andres125sx]

Interesting, but if my maths are correct (and assuming you meant 4kWh), that´s almost 10C charging... Not even high C Lipo batteries can take that

Any idea about what battery technology are they talking about?

Not very happy about the idea, adding pit-stops and waiting 30 seconds to charge not even a 8% of the battery... I´d cut race lenght an 8% and keep it without any pit-stop

It's a race feature, not a technical shortcoming. Seems likely each car will have option to stop for bit more power or skip the stop for track position.

Hey didn´t consider this, and it would be very interesting

[Andres125sx]

... I think if they bring in a fast charge it will be compulsory.

It would have to be compulsory, unless the races are deliberately one lap longer than the battery capacity? Then you can roll the dice on slower lap time or safety car or VSC and ditch the stop...

There´s no race lenght for battery capacity, same battery can last 20 laps or 50, depending on the power used,
how much coasting, etc.

[Big Tea]

That´s true, but I don´t think 10C charging is necessary at all. No need to charge from 0% to 100% in 6 minutes, if someone need fast charging to continue a trip even a quarter of that will be more than enough (25% in 6 minutes, or 12% in 3 minutes or 50% in 12 minutes) to reach home and charge at more reasonable currents. Charger, wiring and net requirements will be a lot more reasonable and batteries will be very glad to avoid that sort of currents. 600kW charging is just crazy (for road use), current ultra-fast charging at 250kW is more than enough

True, and that is the most efficient use of charging, (pay for fast and charge low cost at home) but it would also mean that all electric is than an option for people with just the one car as they know places like UK most journeys would only involve a stop or two without problems. Oops, messed up the quote sorry

[AJI]

... I think if they bring in a fast charge it will be compulsory.

It would have to be compulsory, unless the races are deliberately one lap longer than the battery capacity? Then you can roll the dice on slower lap time or safety car or VSC and ditch the stop...

There´s no race lenght for battery capacity, same battery can last 20 laps or 50, depending on the power used,
how much coasting, etc.

True, but to help with the spectacle of racing, the race length does tend to very closely coincide with the battery being dangerously close to 0% capacity on the final lap...
It's similar to hydrocarbon powered cars, but you can under fuel a hydrocarbon car to gain lap time. Cant be doing that with a fixed battery size.