Mercedes W11

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Holm86
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Re: Mercedes W11

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The regulations can quite simply be put like this:
Steering geometry is only allowed to change when steering wheel is moved. And the wheel is moved, wheter it being lateral or rotational

Giblet
Giblet
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Re: Mercedes W11

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"Wild changes" in toe would hardly be dangerous, considering it would be within the amount of toe they run.

I doubt a fluctuating toe in amount would be dangerous, just not very stable.

It's more akin to the F-Duct I think.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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Oehrly
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Holm86 wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 13:24
Oehrly wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 12:28
So how can this be legal:

From the 2020 regulations

10.2.1 With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom.
This paragraph says when fixed, and by fixed it means not moving. It only takes into account rotational movement, not latteral, and this steering wheel moves laterally which means its not in it's fixed position, so should be legal with this formulation
Edit: misunderstood, that's sort of what I meant too
Last edited by Oehrly on 20 Feb 2020, 13:48, edited 2 times in total.

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turbof1
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Re: Mercedes W11

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F1Krof wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 12:33
I do not believe that is what is going on. It could be for driver's preference, since they're sharing the car with Bottas.
But that is something they would change in the garage, not spend what must be a huge lot of resources on suspension mechanisms and packaging, just so the driver can adjust it on the fly. This is definitely something they want to run for the races.
#AeroFrodo

f1rules
f1rules
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Re: Mercedes W11

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and this is why merc is the best, amazing =D> =D> =D>

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dren
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Anyone have a rough estimate of how much this would gain in speed with just the reduction in drag (roll resistance) from the toe change?

Also, wouldn't it also raise the front of the car based on the offset of the pushrods? Pulling the toe back should increase spring pressure on both push rods.
Last edited by dren on 20 Feb 2020, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.
Honda!

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Holm86
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Oehrly wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 13:44
Holm86 wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 13:24
Oehrly wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 12:28
So how can this be legal:

From the 2020 regulations

This paragraph says when fixed, and by fixed it means not moving. It only takes into account rotational movement, not latteral, and this steering wheel moves laterally which means its not in it's fixed position, so should be legal with this formulation
Edit: misunderstood
Precicely, and the geometry doesn't change when the steering wheel is fixed, only when moved rotationally and in this case laterally. So legal according to the wording in the regulations

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turbof1
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Oehrly wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 13:44
Holm86 wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 13:24
Oehrly wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 12:28
So how can this be legal:

From the 2020 regulations

This paragraph says when fixed, and by fixed it means not moving. It only takes into account rotational movement, not latteral, and this steering wheel moves laterally which means its not in it's fixed position, so should be legal with this formulation
No, the paragraph only talks about rotation in the context of the wheels (as in tyres and rims).
Fixed, i.e. not moving in the context of the steering wheel is not further defined. Which would mean it's fixed in all possible directions of movement.
I guess this is vague and might be the legal opening. However, since it is vague the FIA might be able to ban it on the same ruling, or even based on the catch all moveable aerodynamics rule.

Mercedes just can't let go of moving into legal grey areas with suspension :lol:
#AeroFrodo

f1rules
f1rules
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Re: Mercedes W11

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turbof1
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Re: Mercedes W11

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dren wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 13:47
Anyone have a rough estimate of how much this would gain in speed with just the reduction in drag from the toe change?

Also, wouldn't it also raise the front of the car based on the offset of the pushrods? Pulling the toe back should increase spring pressure on both push rods.
Since the diagonal of the tyres is longer than its height, this would indeed raise the front a little bit.

This will also lift the front wing, splitter and floor slightly, which could result in a bit drag reduction, next to the reduced contact patch already leading to reduced friction.

However, that in turn can be classified as movable aerodynamics.
#AeroFrodo

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Where did we get the information that it changes the toe angle??
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Toe in increases straight line stability. Toe out improves turn in. Unless you're running 2+ degrees of toe, it won't affect scrub or tire temperature significantly. It will wear the inner and outside shoulders depending on toe in or out.
Saishū kōnā

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JordanMugen
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Re: Mercedes W11

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 14:01
Where did we get the information that it changes the toe angle??
By watching the footage IMO.

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jh199
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Re: Mercedes W11

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 14:01
Where did we get the information that it changes the toe angle??
You can see the angle change as Hamilton pushes and pulls the steering wheel. There were videos a few pages back but here's another video showing it.

aral
aral
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Apart from the visual proof, it is being reported on nearly every F1 site. And other teams have stated that it will be protested if brought to Melbourne or any other race. It is clearly in contravention of the rules regarding to fixed suspension units and also that suspension cannot be adjusted by the driver.