Mercedes W11

[hamilton#1]

I'm definitely not an expert, but is it possible for it to be a passive system? The tires want to stay in a straight line, because it has less resistance. So when entering the straight, the toe becomes 0 degrees and the steering wheel is pushed back. When approaching the corner the steering column moves back to its original place because of the forces due to braking.

I sounds a bit farfetched and this would also mean that the steering column is moving al the time. Even mid corners and I think that would mean that the are not able to fully control it and therefore control their balance.

Please don't judge me on this idea. I'm just a Formula 1 fan trying to maybe add some thoughts.

[marvin78]

I think you would not need the steering wheel for a passive system.

[cooken]

Can I ask why the term "lateral" has been adopted? To me this implies the steering wheel is moving sideways. Longitudinal makes infinitely more sense to describe this motion.

[AMG.Tzan]

Would it have been useful or even possible to change the camber using the same trick??

[turbof1]

I'm definitely not an expert, but is it possible for it to be a passive system? The tires want to stay in a straight line, because it has less resistance. So when entering the straight, the toe becomes 0 degrees and the steering wheel is pushed back. When approaching the corner the steering column moves back to its original place because of the forces due to braking.

I sounds a bit farfetched and this would also mean that the steering column is moving al the time. Even mid corners and I think that would mean that the are not able to fully control it and therefore control their balance.

Please don't judge me on this idea. I'm just a Formula 1 fan trying to maybe add some thoughts.

That would indeed be theoritically possible, as are all passive system really, but difficult to have it work at the appropiate time.

In reality I don't think it is feasible. They couldn't get a passive DRS working properly or make it worth it, and this sounds massively more complex to pull off.

[hamilton#1]

I think you would not need the steering wheel for a passive system.

I clearly did not think about that. Nonetheless thank you for this simple, but effective explanation.

[jetho]

I can't understand all this fuss about DAS legality...

It's pretty OBVIOUS Mercedes that has just spent a bunch of months, human resources and millions of dollars developing, building and testing a system that's completely ILLEGAL. Maybe for fun, maybe because they are just ignorant. After all, what do they know about building an F1 car? /s

The point is:

I can assure you that there will be people who will put a legit argument why this is not legal and vice versa.

Is it illegal because the steering isn't allowed to change the toe angle? Maybe, maybe not...
Is it illegal beacue it can be argued to be a moveable aerodynamic device? Maybe, maybe not...
Is it illegal because it will also effect the ride hight? Maybe maybe not...

There are a lot of arguments to be made for and againt ist. Just because Mercedes thinks it's legal and spent a lot of money on it doesn't mean it actually is.
Even Mercedes saying they have 'cleared' it with the FIA doesn't mean anything. What they have most likely done is asked the FIA during the summer wether their idea is legal and the FIA has given an opinion about it.
An idea and a final implementation are two very different things.
An opinion and a verdict are two very different things.

Also, afaik the FIA can give opinions, write the rules and technical derectives, but only the stewards at a race can declare the legality of something.

[Vary]

Can I ask why the term "lateral" has been adopted? To me this implies the steering wheel is moving sideways. Longitudinal makes infinitely more sense to describe this motion.

yeah, this is clearly longitudinal movement, the engineer in me is dying everytime i've read lateral...
And for what is worth, the "conventional" motion of a steering wheel is a rotation, not a radial movement

(sorry for being pedantic )

[dren]

I'm definitely not an expert, but is it possible for it to be a passive system? The tires want to stay in a straight line, because it has less resistance. So when entering the straight, the toe becomes 0 degrees and the steering wheel is pushed back. When approaching the corner the steering column moves back to its original place because of the forces due to braking.

I sounds a bit farfetched and this would also mean that the steering column is moving al the time. Even mid corners and I think that would mean that the are not able to fully control it and therefore control their balance.

Please don't judge me on this idea. I'm just a Formula 1 fan trying to maybe add some thoughts.

That would indeed be theoritically possible, as are all passive system really, but difficult to have it work at the appropiate time.

In reality I don't think it is feasible. They couldn't get a passive DRS working properly or make it worth it, and this sounds massively more complex to pull off.

For it to be passive, and pass in this forum, it'd have to somehow include Hg.

[SiLo]

Would it have been useful or even possible to change the camber using the same trick??

I don't think so, I think that would count as a suspension setup change. Camber effectively changes as the car goes through corners, but only relative to the road, not the car.

[i70q7m7ghw]

[turbof1]

I can't understand all this fuss about DAS legality...

It's pretty OBVIOUS Mercedes that has just spent a bunch of months, human resources and millions of dollars developing, building and testing a system that's completely ILLEGAL. Maybe for fun, maybe because they are just ignorant. After all, what do they know about building an F1 car? /s

The point is:

I can assure you that there will be people who will put a legit argument why this is not legal and vice versa.

Is it illegal because the steering isn't allowed to change the toe angle? Maybe, maybe not...
Is it illegal beacue it can be argued to be a moveable aerodynamic device? Maybe, maybe not...
Is it illegal because it will also effect the ride hight? Maybe maybe not...

There are a lot of arguments to be made for and againt ist. Just because Mercedes thinks it's legal and spent a lot of money on it doesn't mean it actually is.
Even Mercedes saying they have 'cleared' it with the FIA doesn't mean anything. What they have most likely done is asked the FIA during the summer wether their idea is legal and the FIA has given an opinion about it.
An idea and a final implementation are two very different things.
An opinion and a verdict are two very different things.

Also, afaik the FIA can give opinions, write the rules and technical derectives, but only the stewards at a race can declare the legality of something.

It will end up at a FIA technical tribune though should it be declared illegal by a steward. Mercedes would no doubt appeal such a decision.

That being said, even the FIA has showed that it can contravene itself. In 2013 Charlie Whiting gave a positive advise for an in-season test for Mercedes, which later got overruled.

[zac510]

If the toe is not classified as part of the suspension (and hence makes it legal by 10.2.2 and 10.2.3) , then the steering wheel activation is not necessary because they could just activate it with a steering wheel button.

I think by activating it by the steering wheel they're building the association that it is indeed a steering adjustment.

Activating it by a button and a hydraulic actuators has a strong association to active suspension, which is obviously illegal.

[bosyber]

The term Mercedes gave it, Dual Axes Steering strongly suggest they deem it as steering. Really it seems to me they are saying it's just the driver moving the steering wheel, nothing too different from any other car - but oh, that? - well, we just added a second axis of movement, that's just making the steering better, right, nothing towards there (and not much different than aircraft rudders, I could imagine the argument, in adding another movement to control?)

[zac510]

3d steering!

No suspension changes here, just all steering!