Mercedes W11

[OO7]

W10 Mexico 2019:
https://i.imgur.com/uIbLK3Z.jpg

W11 Barcelona Test Day 2:
https://i.imgur.com/f6ae2sZ.jpg

Great eye bud. You've got a knack for finding fantastic comparison shots.

Cheers zibby.

[Aduj]

No DAS next year?
https://i.imgur.com/IHOyky1.png
from the 2021 technical regulations.

Interesting! Maybe they had this in the pipeline for 2021 originally but then saw the new regulations would make it illegal, so 2020 it is. Or perhaps the 2021 regulations gave them the idea in the first place... Or maybe Mercedes gave the FIA the idea for a more restrictive rule for 2021? Who knows...

[bidong]

Can someone tell me how the DAS system won't be banned considering that these are in the 2020 Technical Regulations?

1.6 Complete wheel : Wheel and inflated tyre. The complete wheel is considered part of the suspension system.

10.1.2 Any suspension system fitted to the front wheels must be so arranged that its responseresults only from changes in load applied to the front wheels.

10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden.

10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion.

I'm all for innovation but the DAS system doesn't adhere to 1.6 and 10.2.3 in full concept. Regarding 10.1.2 and 10.2.2 you can find ways to spin it but for the first and last articles... it's a straight up violation.

[LM10]

Can someone tell me how the DAS system won't be banned considering that these are in the 2020 Technical Regulations?

1.6 Complete wheel : Wheel and inflated tyre. The complete wheel is considered part of the suspension system.

10.1.2 Any suspension system fitted to the front wheels must be so arranged that its responseresults only from changes in load applied to the front wheels.

10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden.

10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion.

I'm all for innovation but the DAS system doesn't adhere to 1.6 and 10.2.3 in full concept. Regarding 10.1.2 and 10.2.2 you can find ways to spin it but for the first and last articles... it's a straight up violation.

1.6 is an interesting point actually and has not been mentioned yet. If the wheel is considered as a part of the suspension system then manually changin toe would be a change to the suspension system while in motion and would violate 10.2.3, as you told.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Yep @bidong. Nice find and like you I can’t see how you can argue it’s legal based on those two clauses. They’re slightly out of context of course in that they’re in separate parts of the rule book.

Mercedes will of course argue that they aren’t changing the wheels per se. They change (non powered) the rod which as a secondary benefit changes the wheel. (Lawyers speak)

[toraabe]

They are just pulling the steering rods. Hence the wheels will point inwards.

[gibells]

This system gives me the heebs. I'm all for innovation, but surely you'd be severely compromising the driver if, for example, the system gets stuck in an the car enters a high speed corner following a straight with less than optimal grip. In my eyes the failure would be catastrophic.

[Holm86]

according to that logic, it should't be legal to turn the steering wheel either, if the wheel is part of the suspension, and the suspension is only allowed to change under load

[Holm86]

always nice when people downvote, instead of trying to counter the argument

[izzy]

always nice when people downvote, instead of trying to counter the argument

It's poor when people do that

[marmer]

This system gives me the heebs. I'm all for innovation, but surely you'd be severely compromising the driver if, for example, the system gets stuck in an the car enters a high speed corner following a straight with less than optimal grip. In my eyes the failure would be catastrophic.

it remains to be seen if it actually limits left/right movement as its only been used on the straights. a slight change of toe alone would't be that negative to the ability to avoid a car or overtake
what also remains is if the wheel needs to be pulled constantly by the driver and if in a situation where the driver lets go of the wheel it snaps back into place it could quite easily by sping loaded to go back to normal

[LM10]

according to that logic, it should't be legal to turn the steering wheel either, if the wheel is part of the suspension, and the suspension is only allowed to change under load

Are we gonna ignore the common sense that turning the steering wheel is going to change the direction of a vehicle and therefore is needed and does not need to be regulated?
Ignoring 1.6, this system is legal because POU is legal too after all. But 1.6 is an interesting factor being added to the equation and makes it not so clear anymore.

[GPR-A]

This system gives me the heebs. I'm all for innovation, but surely you'd be severely compromising the driver if, for example, the system gets stuck in an the car enters a high speed corner following a straight with less than optimal grip. In my eyes the failure would be catastrophic.

The same applies to every single part on the car! A Stuck DRS, which we have already seen! A failed front wing! A Failed Break! A failed Break By Wire when there is a failure in ERS system! Anything can fail.

[Holm86]

according to that logic, it should't be legal to turn the steering wheel either, if the wheel is part of the suspension, and the suspension is only allowed to change under load

Are we gonna ignore the common sense that turning the steering wheel is going to change the direction of a vehicle and therefore is needed and does not need to be regulated?
Ignoring 1.6, this system is legal because POU is legal too after all. But 1.6 is an interesting factor being added to the equation and makes it not so clear anymore.

The fascinating part of F1 is that there's no common sense. Everything is legislation, and interpretation of this legislation.
There is no paragraph that says that steering is only for changing direction, and that steering can only happen in one axis.

F1 is kind of like America, you have to specify everything you CAN'T do, otherwise people will do it

[subcritical71]

according to that logic, it should't be legal to turn the steering wheel either, if the wheel is part of the suspension, and the suspension is only allowed to change under load

I was thinking the same, but there must be another rule which allows steering (obvious as it may be) which may also allow the DAS to be legal.

Just a few thoughts,
Section 10.1.2 is applicable to the sprung suspension, which the wheel is not part of

1.13 Sprung suspension :
The means whereby all complete wheels are suspended from the unit comprising the survival cell/power unit/gearbox by a spring medium.

And I don’t interpret 10.2 as being applicable to the steering system because 1) it would not allow steering, 2) depending on how they are affecting the change in toe, there may be no movement of a suspension member. My guess is they are moving the steering linkages to do this and that is not part of the suspension.

Now, could the stewards deem it a driver aid or moveable aero... who knows!