[ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

[izzy]

Anyway if Mercedes wanted to help they'd just email the drawings wouldn't they.

I'd say they'd WeTransfer'ed them, as email would hit the max. mailsize limit.

oh of course! or to make it all off grid and secret , popped over with a usb stick as it's literally 8 miles, or just quelle surprise met up in the pub

[izzy]

That last whole section about 'just going low rake", taking photos and somehow coming up with something 100% similar" that would take a top team ages to get right- that is whole design change, even if you were building a replica..
No RP have had a knee-up or two- here and there... so now RP jump from wherever they were last year in the title to maybe 3rd or 4th this year.. Nobody without a rule change can find that amount of time by normal means. They haven't all of a sudden just built from scratch the 4th fastest car themselves.. they have had a lot of help and it will grate on a lot of people... it makes a mockery of the having a "reset' on the f1 rules. Why not just give everyone last year's fastest car and start next year all on the same footing. But that isnt f1..!!!

they had a lot of dimensions and coordinates, all the powertrain, suspension, brake ducts, wheels, all the dimensions in the regs, it'd be very easy to join the dots from loads of hires photos

Lawrence is investing, taking on another 100+ staff and who knows what equipment, he's entitled to jump up the order imo

as they say it's be a big advantage using the Mercedes wind tunnel, that's the key really, being able to use the same one as their non-listed parts supplier, the right tools for the concept and the best ones, with great correlation. They ought to ban that, and make the suspension Listed, but even so they'll need proper F1 skillz to do a season, ask Guenther!

[Giblet]

Maybe we could talk about the actual team instead of conspiracy theories that are best, dubious.

Photographic evidence of a 99% perfect copy, that, on the surface, looks like it does not comply with the regulations, is not "conspiracy theories".

It's going to be looked at for protest in Australia is my guess. It's way too similar for it NOT to be in the nit-picky world of F1.

No, saying that Mercedes gave them 4 chassis is.

[Zynerji]

Maybe we could talk about the actual team instead of conspiracy theories that are best, dubious.

Photographic evidence of a 99% perfect copy, that, on the surface, looks like it does not comply with the regulations, is not "conspiracy theories".

It's going to be looked at for protest in Australia is my guess. It's way too similar for it NOT to be in the nit-picky world of F1.

No, saying that Mercedes gave them 4 chassis is.

I agree on that point, 100%!

[Racer X]

Photographic evidence of a 99% perfect copy, that, on the surface, looks like it does not comply with the regulations, is not "conspiracy theories".

It's going to be looked at for protest in Australia is my guess. It's way too similar for it NOT to be in the nit-picky world of F1.

No, saying that Mercedes gave them 4 chassis is.

I agree on that point, 100%!

Maybe if Pink Mercedes show up with an Update to Melbourne then magically its technically an evolution of a car inspired by the W10 and thus wont be breaking any rules. Because you wont be racing the W10 Clone youll be racing an "evolved" car inspired by the W10. yeah this feels like conspiracy theories...
But im sure everything is legal.

[langedweil]

Anyway if Mercedes wanted to help they'd just email the drawings wouldn't they.

I'd say they'd WeTransfer'ed them, as email would hit the max. mailsize limit.

oh of course! or to make it all off grid and secret , popped over with a usb stick as it's literally 8 miles, or just quelle surprise met up in the pub

[Raleigh]

Haas run a successful Ferrari inspired car every year with 200 staff and a tiny budget.

And then Racing Point come along and make Haas look like amateurs because Racing Point has nearly 500 staff, much better facilities and a strong track record of their own design talent.

There's no reason to believe that Racing Point can't do a far better job than Haas if both teams are playing the same game, you are pitting a strong midfield team against what's essentially a trackside-only budget team running customer chassis they buy from Dallara.

[Jambier]

Haas run a successful Ferrari inspired car every year with 200 staff and a tiny budget.

And then Racing Point come along and make Haas look like amateurs because Racing Point has nearly 500 staff, much better facilities and a strong track record of their own design talent.

There's no reason to believe that Racing Point can't do a far better job than Haas if both teams are playing the same game, you are pitting a strong midfield team against what's essentially a trackside-only budget team running customer chassis they buy from Dallara.

I agree with that.
RP is a true formula 1 team, it has done great cars, know how to use little money, and have decent installation.

It is absolutely not the same thing than Haas

[NAPI10]

During commentary, Rob Smedley made an interesting comment when asked about Racing point & what they done with ‘RP20’.He said, “It’s legal & available ; you are a fool if you don’t do it”.
Seems he was hinting to his ex-employer

[thestig84]

During commentary, Rob Smedley made an interesting comment when asked about Racing point & what they done with ‘RP20’.He said, “It’s legal & available ; you are a fool if you don’t do it”.
Seems he was hinting to his ex-employer

He muttered something about saying that when at Williams too didnt he. What confused me was he said "You absolutely can't copy one of these cars from pictures, far too much going on and too much you cant see. You need the drawings" Then went on to say they must have copied from photos and filled in gaps in their knowledge in the tunnel

[PhillipM]

Once you've bought the entire suspension, brake tins, ducts, power unit, gearbox, etc - and, this is important - Mercedes *can* give you data on radiators size/shape, cooling inlet sizes, sidepod expansion ratios, airbox intake sizes, etc, because it all comes under power unit cooling - then you've pretty much got your entire sidepods and engine cover sorted and leave it to the photographs and CFD to tidy up the details.
Your worst part to copy is the bargeboards.
Front wing and rear diffuser is pretty easy as they're so restricted.

It's not easy to copy a car from photographs, but it is a lot easier if you've a huge amount of data on the cooling, etc, already and you just need to make things match.

[Big Tea]

Not running RP down, they do what they have to to survive, but I wonder how many of this new intake of staff have experience making the car at Merc last year?

[Racer X]

Not running RP down, they do what they have to to survive, but I wonder how many of this new intake of staff have experience making the car at Merc last year?

I wonder why they were let go? its great they found work at Pink Mercedes but i wonder if this is why they were so accurate i mean if you put an entire staff to help these guys coming in from Silver Mercedes then suddenly it makes sense that they could recreate such an accurate W10 Car. Plus they might be able to develop it quite well during the season and have a strong understanding of how things work with the Silver Mercedes staff now wearing Pink Mercedes gear.

[Big Tea]

Not running RP down, they do what they have to to survive, but I wonder how many of this new intake of staff have experience making the car at Merc last year?

I wonder why they were let go? its great they found work at Pink Mercedes but i wonder if this is why they were so accurate i mean if you put an entire staff to help these guys coming in from Silver Mercedes then suddenly it makes sense that they could recreate such an accurate W10 Car. Plus they might be able to develop it quite well during the season and have a strong understanding of how things work with the Silver Mercedes staff now wearing Pink Mercedes gear.

Convenient co-incidence Hmm? (If true). I wonder if the tale of Merc taking leave had some truth in it and the F1 end took some contingency measures 'just in case'?
(pure chinwagging on my part BTW, no getting ideas )

[izzy]

Not running RP down, they do what they have to to survive, but I wonder how many of this new intake of staff have experience making the car at Merc last year?

yes i mean Lawrence would be insane not to try and get some matching staff really, to make it a complete kit, like a huge bootstrap into the big time