Mercedes W11

[dans79]

It's actually a very good arguement, changing the toe angle will change the ride height of the car moving all the aero parts on the car almost like active suspension.

You are going to have to explain this, because I've never seen toe angle effect ride height, not in isolation anyway. Camber can change it by a minuscule amount, but even that would require a camber angle change that no team, would be willing to make, because of the negative side effects associated with it.

The drivers head and the wheels aren't aero devices thus don't matter if they are moving.

Neither are the wheels, but those can be turned at will by the driver at at point.

[dren]

It's actually a very good arguement, changing the toe angle will change the ride height of the car moving all the aero parts on the car almost like active suspension.

You are going to have to explain this, because I've never seen toe angle effect ride height, not in isolation anyway. Camber can change it by a minuscule amount, but even that would require a camber angle change that no team, would be willing to make, because of the negative side effects associated with it.

The drivers head and the wheels aren't aero devices thus don't matter if they are moving.

Neither are the wheels, but those can be turned at will by the driver at at point.

Based on where the push rod is attached to the hub, the front of the Mercedes lowers when turning into corners. Adjusting the toe with the steering wheel moving in and out should also slightly change the ride height.

[dans79]

Based on where the push rod is attached to the hub, the front of the Mercedes lowers when turning into corners. Adjusting the toe with the steering wheel moving in and out should also slightly change the ride height.

That's an assumption we can't validate yet, hence the reason I said toe in isolation doesn't effect ride height.

I'd personally assume tMercedes would make sure that doesn't happen, because its such an obvious thing for other teams to protest, and is pretty clearly against the rules.

[dren]

Based on where the push rod is attached to the hub, the front of the Mercedes lowers when turning into corners. Adjusting the toe with the steering wheel moving in and out should also slightly change the ride height.

That's an assumption we can't validate yet, hence the reason I said toe in isolation doesn't effect ride height.

I'd personally assume tMercedes would make sure that doesn't happen, because its such an obvious thing for other teams to protest, and is pretty clearly against the rules.

It's not an assumption. Look at the geometry of the front suspension. There are videos and discussion on it on this forum. They had the same thing last year sans the DAS part.

[Racer X]

If its changing the ride height during corners the teams will protest by the end of free practice after they have had a chance to see the Mercedes.

I assume the FIA will have protests/and enough time to decide before qualifying. Mercedes better be ready with a fix or better fix things before this* saturday because other teams wont let them cheat. That way they have time to paint a Force India silver again.

[De Jokke]

Who says they are cheating?

[dans79]

Based on where the push rod is attached to the hub, the front of the Mercedes lowers when turning into corners. Adjusting the toe with the steering wheel moving in and out should also slightly change the ride height.

That's an assumption we can't validate yet, hence the reason I said toe in isolation doesn't effect ride height.

I'd personally assume tMercedes would make sure that doesn't happen, because its such an obvious thing for other teams to protest, and is pretty clearly against the rules.

It's not an assumption. Look at the geometry of the front suspension. There are videos and discussion on it on this forum. They had the same thing last year sans the DAS part.

No one here knows for sure how DAS works at a technical level, only at a conceptual level.

Even Craig Scarborough (a member here) who knows a lot more than most of us, doesn't specifically state how DAS works.
https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/das-r ... -advantage

[dans79]

Who says they are cheating?

By definition they would have to use it in qualifying or a race before they could be considered to be cheating.

[Racer X]

Who says they are cheating?

Playing with a grey area withing the rules. Im just saying they hopefully can make sure its NOT breaking the rules enough so that its legal. Does that make you happy if i dont use the C word. All im saying is i hope they are legal by the start of Quali because if they are not the other teams will protest we all know this.

EDIT** im just saying i hope its legal if they use it in a RACE/Or QUALI.

[Big Tea]

When the tyre manufacturer requests a change in operating pressure, would this not have an effect on tyre profile and wall flexibility which would have a similar effect to those mentioned?
If it has been accepted, can they change it now?

I believe you are thinking of camber, not toe!

Indeed, but is it bot the same thing rotated 90 degrees?

[dans79]

When the tyre manufacturer requests a change in operating pressure, would this not have an effect on tyre profile and wall flexibility which would have a similar effect to those mentioned?
If it has been accepted, can they change it now?

I believe you are thinking of camber, not toe!

Indeed, but is it bot the same thing rotated 90 degrees?

Not exactly.

[subcritical71]

To avoid a possible post race penalty, could Merc ask one of its customer teams file a protest with the expected arguments from RBR and get it clarified before Quali?

[dans79]

To avoid a possible post race penalty, could Merc ask one of its customer teams file a protest with the expected arguments from RBR and get it clarified before Quali?

I'm not sure to what extent the car has to be "legal" during practice, or if you can protest on safety grounds.

[henry]

If they don’t run DAS in qualifying it would weaken the argument that there is an aero benefit. I don’t think they used it on their fast laps in testing but then again I didn’t watch every lap.

If the do run DAS in the race and their overall stint tyre performance is better than the opposition it would reinforce the case that it’s a tyre performance not aero.

[Sevach]

It's actually a very good arguement, changing the toe angle will change the ride height of the car moving all the aero parts on the car almost like active suspension.

You are going to have to explain this, because I've never seen toe angle effect ride height, not in isolation anyway. Camber can change it by a minuscule amount, but even that would require a camber angle change that no team, would be willing to make, because of the negative side effects associated with it.

We never had a device that could alter the camber and return to original settings in time for the corners... but that's besides the point.

You are right in principle, but... Scarbs was theorizing that DAS interacting with POU could lift the front end on the straights.