[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[Sevach]

Sainz scored double the points of Lando but in your opinion that didn´t look dominant?

He scored less than that against Max and people say they were equal.

Who said they were equal?

I always considered Max stronger, not so consistent in race pace but faster at every aspect. Also, Max for RBR (and STR obviously) is their star driver since day -1, probably from the whole grid only Hamilton rivals Max when it comes to favouritism into his team, and probably not even him. He ignored TOs repeatedly while Carlos always followed, that means some points Max scored when shouldn´t, and also that Carlos didn´t score when he should.

To me Max is much faster and a better driver overall than Carlos, but that point difference didn´t tell the whole story. And we´re talking about Max, best driver of the latest generation with Lecrerc. I think none put Carlos in that category, we all agree on that don´t we?

But since Lecrerc drives for Ferrari and Max obviously is not going to join Ferrari too, I think Carlos in one of the best drivers they can hire to replace Seb, very good even if not the fastest, a team player, consistent, friendly

Maybe not you but some people, including people in this forum do say Max and Carlos were equal in 2015.
The argument that you made the gap in points wasn't fully representative of their performance in 2015 is the same one i present when comparing Norris and Carlos, and this discussion started because you asked if double the points wasn't dominant enough for me.

I just find Carlos a good but not great driver, in the class of his former team mate Hulkenberg, for me this choice was an underwhelming one by Ferrari and they should've gotten Ricciardo or Bottas.

[PlatinumZealot]

Carlos definitely found something in 2019. He is not the same driver he was before. We have to just wait and see how he does this year if the season goes ahead.

[GPR-A]

He scored less than that against Max and people say they were equal.

Who said they were equal?

I always considered Max stronger, not so consistent in race pace but faster at every aspect. Also, Max for RBR (and STR obviously) is their star driver since day -1, probably from the whole grid only Hamilton rivals Max when it comes to favouritism into his team, and probably not even him. He ignored TOs repeatedly while Carlos always followed, that means some points Max scored when shouldn´t, and also that Carlos didn´t score when he should.

To me Max is much faster and a better driver overall than Carlos, but that point difference didn´t tell the whole story. And we´re talking about Max, best driver of the latest generation with Lecrerc. I think none put Carlos in that category, we all agree on that don´t we?

But since Lecrerc drives for Ferrari and Max obviously is not going to join Ferrari too, I think Carlos in one of the best drivers they can hire to replace Seb, very good even if not the fastest, a team player, consistent, friendly

Maybe not you but some people, including people in this forum do say Max and Carlos were equal in 2015.
The argument that you made the gap in points wasn't fully representative of their performance in 2015 is the same one i present when comparing Norris and Carlos, and this discussion started because you asked if double the points wasn't dominant enough for me.

I just find Carlos a good but not great driver, in the class of his former team mate Hulkenberg, for me this choice was an underwhelming one by Ferrari and they should've gotten Ricciardo or Bottas.

I am glad you are not making the decisions for Ferrari. If the argument is over, can you guys move on?

[Sevach]

Carlos definitely found something in 2019. He is not the same driver he was before. We have to just wait and see how he does this year if the season goes ahead.

The excuse is already in place if you are wrong, "Mclaren switched their efforts towards Norris".

[hollus]

Actually, the argument from 2 posts above is on topic and this is the right thread for such discussion, IMO. Talking about Ferrari, the de-facto or imagined number 1 and number 2 status is always specially relevant, given their history.

[GPR-A]

Actually, the argument from 2 posts above is on topic and this is the right thread for such discussion, IMO. Talking about Ferrari, the de-facto or imagined number 1 and number 2 status is always specially relevant, given their history.

So you are saying, the newly signed driver for 2021's perceived performance based on his past performance is relevant in a 2020 Team thread? OK.

[Andres125sx]

I hope it is not political and they are allowed to race, at least as long as both are in the fight

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

People usually consider Ferrari as the team wich provide more TOs, but IMHO they´ve always been very fair in that aspect, even teams like McLaren or Racing Point (Force India) and even Haas have been a lot more unfair in that aspect than the red ones, despite a lower profile at the respect.

IMO RBR should receive that title by a huge margin with the next, since their very first season in F1

[Andres125sx]

The argument that you made the gap in points wasn't fully representative of their performance in 2015 is the same one i present when comparing Norris and Carlos

At STR Carlos received several TOs. He always complied and let Max pass. Max also received some TOs, he never complied and never let him pass

How is that comparable to Norris-Sainz in McLaren? When did any of them disobeyed TOs scoring more points and reducing their teammate scoreboard against their team instructions?

As I already said, with this I´m not saying the points difference between Max and Carlos was due to that, far from that, but some points went to Max scoreboard when they should have gone to Carlos, that´s a fact even RBR did recon if my memory serve me well, but even if not, the videos and radio comunications are public.

As is Carlos reaction to that unfair treatment he received, acting as a gentelmen and a true teamplayer. I´m sure this played a huge role in Ferrari decision, any team want drivers with this attitude

[LM10]

Vettel's retirement was quite a big surprise. He will be a big loss on the grid over all and it's a pity he couldn't make his dream come true by winning a WDC with Ferrari (unless Ferrari turns out to be very competitive and we still see a proper championship this season). After all, I can only respect his decision and wish him good luck for whatever he does in the future.

As for Ferrari's future, it seems quite bright with Leclerc in the driver seat. He truly is a big talent and absolutely capable of winning the world title if everything comes together. I'm very happy that he's a Ferrari driver.
Sainz as his team mate will be a step in the right direction I think as there is gonna be less tension. As others told, it will make Mattia's job of managing the drivers a bit easier.
I don't know how good the driving skills of Sainz are and can't wait to see him in the same car against Charles. Though, I think Leclerc is gonna beat him.

[siskue2005]

I hope it is not political and they are allowed to race, at least as long as both are in the fight

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

People usually consider Ferrari as the team wich provide more TOs, but IMHO they´ve always been very fair in that aspect

Really Massa and Alonso, ferrari have been fair? what about 2010 German GP "fernando is faster than you"? Massa was not "technically" or "mathematically" out of the title fight! Coz Alonso was on 73 points and Massa was on 67 points before that race, just 6 points apart in a 25 points system; but still they made Massa to concede his win to Alonso coz he is their No1.
What kind of fairness are you talking about??

[Jolle]

Ferrari is just going back to a system that gave them their last six driver world championships. If Sainz plays his role right, not too ambitious and there when no1 drops the ball, he will be a Ferrari driver for years to come.

Sainz is perfect. Young, experienced and knows how to be a professional. He’s fast, not as fast as the top three (Leclerc, Hamilton or Verstappen) but close enough to Leclerc to be there when it matters.
On 2015, yes number wise he was close to Verstappen, but Verstappen is/was on a very steep developing curve, with just one year of car racing before that year while Sainz did the more traditional five.

The big three have perfect wingmen now. Bottas, Albon and Sainz. All three know that they are good but also are realistic enough to know that their succes is not the main goal of the teams.

[mika vs michael]

Michael Schumacher brought with him to Ferrari Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Tombazis...he built a team. Leclerc is a very fast driver but first he has to learn how to save his tyre a bit. I don't see Ferrari being in the path it was in the Schumacher years. Binotto will re-organize the team and he may bring Ferrari to the right path. I would give him a five year time at least if I was a Ferrari boss. I think he spent a couple already. Ferrari needs more attributes. And we all know in F1 since the 90's it's more about the car in the end. If Vettel was in a Mercedes and Hamilton in a Ferrari I am not sure Hamilton would have won any title. Ok maybe more wins and maybe closer fight to the title but still. But History is not written by ifs and etc...Anyway it is what it is and Binotto won't have unlimited time.

[Andres125sx]

I hope it is not political and they are allowed to race, at least as long as both are in the fight

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

People usually consider Ferrari as the team wich provide more TOs, but IMHO they´ve always been very fair in that aspect

Really Massa and Alonso, ferrari have been fair? what about 2010 German GP "fernando is faster than you"? Massa was not "technically" or "mathematically" out of the title fight! Coz Alonso was on 73 points and Massa was on 67 points before that race, just 6 points apart in a 25 points system; but still they made Massa to concede his win to Alonso coz he is their No1.
What kind of fairness are you talking about??

Check your facts, the important difference was with the championship leader wich was huge, almost 3 races for Alonso and more than 3 for Massa, not the difference between Alonso and Massa . They were almost discarded from the fight, both of them, but thanks to that Ferrari fighted the title till last race

That is fairness I´m talking about, they do the best for the team wich is their job, not the best for their #1 as many of you think

[Aesop]

The argument that you made the gap in points wasn't fully representative of their performance in 2015 is the same one i present when comparing Norris and Carlos

At STR Carlos received several TOs. He always complied and let Max pass. Max also received some TOs, he never complied and never let him pass

That happened once, in Singapore. Verstappen die have the better of Carlos though. Then again, it's five years ago. Carlos is a different and better driver. Not one of the topdogs, but hé might not be that far off.
Can't see him beat Leclerc though, but no doubt that Ferrari won't use TO's unless there is a championship to be won.
Can't see that happen either this year though.

[PlatinumZealot]

He can beat Leclerc if he continues his great starts and defends it with his great tyre management and level headedness.