[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[FrukostScones]

SAI has been hired as clear No2 to support LEC win the WDC with Ferrari.

[JoeE]

This thread sounds just like a Ferrari meeting

[FrukostScones]

This thread sounds just like a Ferrari meeting

got a headache from the revs?

[siskue2005]

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

People usually consider Ferrari as the team wich provide more TOs, but IMHO they´ve always been very fair in that aspect

Really Massa and Alonso, ferrari have been fair? what about 2010 German GP "fernando is faster than you"? Massa was not "technically" or "mathematically" out of the title fight! Coz Alonso was on 73 points and Massa was on 67 points before that race, just 6 points apart in a 25 points system; but still they made Massa to concede his win to Alonso coz he is their No1.
What kind of fairness are you talking about??

Check your facts, the important difference was with the championship leader wich was huge, almost 3 races for Alonso and more than 3 for Massa, not the difference between Alonso and Massa . They were almost discarded from the fight, both of them, but thanks to that Ferrari fighted the title till last race

That is fairness I´m talking about, they do the best for the team wich is their job, not the best for their #1 as many of you think

That is exactly everyone was saying, They are NEVER fair to their drivers! They just have one No.1 and they do everything to make him/her win. That is never fair! That is just doing the best for team, and putting one driver under the bus even if they r capable of winning the title.....the only season ferrari were fair was 2007; that is mostly coz kimi and massa were almost equal everywhere.

But this is what you said in your previous post, which prompted my answer

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

You said they are fair UNTIL one is no longer in fight for the title; but that is not true at all. Massa was never given fair opportunity in 2010.

In 2010 Germany race as the points state Masssa was never out of the championship, just 6 points of Alonso....who knows if they backed Massa he would have won or not; as far as we know backing Alonso they didnt win!

[Big Tea]

Really Massa and Alonso, ferrari have been fair? what about 2010 German GP "fernando is faster than you"? Massa was not "technically" or "mathematically" out of the title fight! Coz Alonso was on 73 points and Massa was on 67 points before that race, just 6 points apart in a 25 points system; but still they made Massa to concede his win to Alonso coz he is their No1.
What kind of fairness are you talking about??

Check your facts, the important difference was with the championship leader wich was huge, almost 3 races for Alonso and more than 3 for Massa, not the difference between Alonso and Massa . They were almost discarded from the fight, both of them, but thanks to that Ferrari fighted the title till last race

That is fairness I´m talking about, they do the best for the team wich is their job, not the best for their #1 as many of you think

That is exactly everyone was saying, They are NEVER fair to their drivers! They just have one No.1 and they do everything to make him/her win. That is never fair! That is just doing the best for team, and putting one driver under the bus even if they r capable of winning the title.....the only season ferrari were fair was 2007; that is mostly coz kimi and massa were almost equal everywhere.

But this is what you said in your previous post, which prompted my answer

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

You said they are fair UNTIL one is no longer in fight for the title; but that is not true at all. Massa was never given fair opportunity in 2010.

In 2010 Germany race as the points state Masssa was never out of the championship, just 6 points of Alonso....who knows if they backed Massa he would have won or not; as far as we know backing Alonso they didnt win!

It is fair as long as the incoming driver realise it before committing. There is nothing wrong with having a number one driver and supporting driver, just so long as all concerned acknowledge this before the contract is signed, or more importantly before they burn to old job.

[siskue2005]

Check your facts, the important difference was with the championship leader wich was huge, almost 3 races for Alonso and more than 3 for Massa, not the difference between Alonso and Massa . They were almost discarded from the fight, both of them, but thanks to that Ferrari fighted the title till last race

That is fairness I´m talking about, they do the best for the team wich is their job, not the best for their #1 as many of you think

That is exactly everyone was saying, They are NEVER fair to their drivers! They just have one No.1 and they do everything to make him/her win. That is never fair! That is just doing the best for team, and putting one driver under the bus even if they r capable of winning the title.....the only season ferrari were fair was 2007; that is mostly coz kimi and massa were almost equal everywhere.

But this is what you said in your previous post, which prompted my answer

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

You said they are fair UNTIL one is no longer in fight for the title; but that is not true at all. Massa was never given fair opportunity in 2010.

In 2010 Germany race as the points state Masssa was never out of the championship, just 6 points of Alonso....who knows if they backed Massa he would have won or not; as far as we know backing Alonso they didnt win!

It is fair as long as the incoming driver realise it before committing. There is nothing wrong with having a number one driver and supporting driver, just so long as all concerned acknowledge this before the contract is signed, or more importantly before they burn to old job.

Nobody said that no.1 status is wrong!
i was responding to Andres125sx post, where he wrote this>> "Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title.....People usually consider Ferrari as the team wich provide more TOs, but IMHO they´ve always been very fair in that aspect"

Which is not at all true according to the 2010 German GP, when Massa was also a in the title fight with just 6 points behind Alonso! They are not at all fair with their drivers and 2019 season with Vettel and Leclerc proves that again and again.

That is the only point i am trying to prove

[ferkan]

Here is what I think. Vettel is still very, very fast. Back in 14' he was further behind Ric on race pace and very, very close on quali pace. These cars where not as fitting to his style as 10'-13' ones, nor the ones he drove last few years. Yet, Leclerc seemed to have more raw speed with 21yrs and only rookie season behind him.

Sainz...Sainz is solid, consistant and relatively fast, but Hulk beat him easily in 18' and he lost quali battle to Norris. I can see him being closer to Leclerc in race pace, but judging by winter testing and Leclercs advantage over Vettel, I can see this being VERY one sided duel. I expect 3-4 tenths on averag in quali and ~1.5x points if both have similar amount of DNFs.

I just think CS misses that raw speed that Charles and Max have, even though he did clean up his racing and is a really good and talented driver.

[Big Tea]

.

Nobody said that no.1 status is wrong!
i was responding to Andres125sx post, where he wrote this>> "Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title.....People usually consider Ferrari as the team wich provide more TOs, but IMHO they´ve always been very fair in that aspect"

Which is not at all true according to the 2010 German GP, when Massa was also a in the title fight with just 6 points behind Alonso! They are not at all fair with their drivers and 2019 season with Vettel and Leclerc proves that again and again.

That is the only point i am trying to prove

Yeh, It was not a reply directly to you, just saying there is nothing non legal or even non ethical as long as everyone knows before hand. I doubt Massa did

[PlatinumZealot]

Here is what I think. Vettel is still very, very fast. Back in 14' he was further behind Ric on race pace and very, very close on quali pace. These cars where not as fitting to his style as 10'-13' ones, nor the ones he drove last few years. Yet, Leclerc seemed to have more raw speed with 21yrs and only rookie season behind him.

Sainz...Sainz is solid, consistant and relatively fast, but Hulk beat him easily in 18' and he lost quali battle to Norris. I can see him being closer to Leclerc in race pace, but judging by winter testing and Leclercs advantage over Vettel, I can see this being VERY one sided duel. I expect 3-4 tenths on averag in quali and ~1.5x points if both have similar amount of DNFs.

I just think CS misses that raw speed that Charles and Max have, even though he did clean up his racing and is a really good and talented driver.

Carlos has better Racecraft than Leclerc so dont worry about qualifying they will fighting for fifth and sixth if Ferrari dont fix the aero problem next year!

[epo]

Here is what I think. Vettel is still very, very fast. Back in 14' he was further behind Ric on race pace and very, very close on quali pace. These cars where not as fitting to his style as 10'-13' ones, nor the ones he drove last few years. Yet, Leclerc seemed to have more raw speed with 21yrs and only rookie season behind him.

Sainz...Sainz is solid, consistant and relatively fast, but Hulk beat him easily in 18' and he lost quali battle to Norris. I can see him being closer to Leclerc in race pace, but judging by winter testing and Leclercs advantage over Vettel, I can see this being VERY one sided duel. I expect 3-4 tenths on averag in quali and ~1.5x points if both have similar amount of DNFs.

I just think CS misses that raw speed that Charles and Max have, even though he did clean up his racing and is a really good and talented driver.

Carlos has better Racecraft than Leclerc so dont worry about qualifying they will fighting for fifth and sixth if Ferrari dont fix the aero problem next year!

Carlos is a good nr2 driver at Ferrari like Barrichello.

[Andres125sx]

Really Massa and Alonso, ferrari have been fair? what about 2010 German GP "fernando is faster than you"? Massa was not "technically" or "mathematically" out of the title fight! Coz Alonso was on 73 points and Massa was on 67 points before that race, just 6 points apart in a 25 points system; but still they made Massa to concede his win to Alonso coz he is their No1.
What kind of fairness are you talking about??

Check your facts, the important difference was with the championship leader wich was huge, almost 3 races for Alonso and more than 3 for Massa, not the difference between Alonso and Massa . They were almost discarded from the fight, both of them, but thanks to that Ferrari fighted the title till last race

That is fairness I´m talking about, they do the best for the team wich is their job, not the best for their #1 as many of you think

That is exactly everyone was saying, They are NEVER fair to their drivers! They just have one No.1 and they do everything to make him/her win. That is never fair!

No that is NOT what Ferrari do, no matter how many times is repeated. They provide equal opportunities till one driver lost too many points to keep in the fight. Show me one single situation when Ferrari didn´t do that.

But this is what you said in your previous post, which prompted my answer

They did that even with Alonso-Massa. Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title, so I´m sure they will do the same with Lecrerc-Sainz

You said they are fair UNTIL one is no longer in fight for the title; but that is not true at all. Massa was never given fair opportunity in 2010.

In 2010 Germany race as the points state Masssa was never out of the championship, just 6 points of Alonso....who knows if they backed Massa he would have won or not; as far as we know backing Alonso they didnt win!

That is only half the story mate, Massa was 6 points down Alonso, and 78 down Hamilton with half the season finished . First half of the season they received equal treatment, but at that race they decided if someone still had a chance for the title, it was Alonso. Time proved it right, as Alonso did fight the title till last GP of the season despite that big difference in points in Germany.

That season it was Ferrari who underperformed more than Massa tough, but the fact is in first half of the season they received equal treatment and it was the scoreboard who decided the #1 in Germany, with 9 GPs remaining from 19

[shamyakovic]

Check your facts, the important difference was with the championship leader wich was huge, almost 3 races for Alonso and more than 3 for Massa, not the difference between Alonso and Massa . They were almost discarded from the fight, both of them, but thanks to that Ferrari fighted the title till last race

That is fairness I´m talking about, they do the best for the team wich is their job, not the best for their #1 as many of you think

That is exactly everyone was saying, They are NEVER fair to their drivers! They just have one No.1 and they do everything to make him/her win. That is never fair!

No that is NOT what Ferrari do, no matter how many times is repeated. They provide equal opportunities till one driver lost too many points to keep in the fight. Show me one single situation when Ferrari didn´t do that.

Australia 2019 GP
Singapore 2019

First half of the season they received equal treatment, but at that race they decided if someone still had a chance for the title, it was Alonso. Time proved it right, as Alonso did fight the title till last GP of the season despite that big difference in points in Germany.

AFASIK Alonso didnot win the WDC in 2010, so backing him didnot prove right coz Alonso made some silly errors in Spa, Britain which is what cost the WDC

[ferkan]

Here is what I think. Vettel is still very, very fast. Back in 14' he was further behind Ric on race pace and very, very close on quali pace. These cars where not as fitting to his style as 10'-13' ones, nor the ones he drove last few years. Yet, Leclerc seemed to have more raw speed with 21yrs and only rookie season behind him.

Sainz...Sainz is solid, consistant and relatively fast, but Hulk beat him easily in 18' and he lost quali battle to Norris. I can see him being closer to Leclerc in race pace, but judging by winter testing and Leclercs advantage over Vettel, I can see this being VERY one sided duel. I expect 3-4 tenths on averag in quali and ~1.5x points if both have similar amount of DNFs.

I just think CS misses that raw speed that Charles and Max have, even though he did clean up his racing and is a really good and talented driver.

Carlos has better Racecraft than Leclerc so dont worry about qualifying they will fighting for fifth and sixth if Ferrari dont fix the aero problem next year!

Not sure I agree with that. You mean Carlos race pace was better relative to his team mate then CLs? That I agree with. Vettel still had slight advantage on average over Leclerc in race pace, although Leclerc on his day (Bahrain, Spa, Monza, France, Silverstone) looked quite a bit faster.

As for race craft (overtaking, defending) I cannot agree on that at all.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Snore snore bore bore. Personal opinions and emotions galore. None of it baked in any cake of reality

[Pany]

It seems you are a guru. I think also Carlos is just little below Max and Charles, but.... let see firstly when drives a top car (assuming ferrari will be). Do you think Lewis and Max would be so strong without Merco end Redbul? Wait

.

Nobody said that no.1 status is wrong!
i was responding to Andres125sx post, where he wrote this>> "Massa was always allowed to race until he lost so many points he´s no longer in the fight for the title.....People usually consider Ferrari as the team wich provide more TOs, but IMHO they´ve always been very fair in that aspect"

Which is not at all true according to the 2010 German GP, when Massa was also a in the title fight with just 6 points behind Alonso! They are not at all fair with their drivers and 2019 season with Vettel and Leclerc proves that again and again.

That is the only point i am trying to prove

Yeh, It was not a reply directly to you, just saying there is nothing non legal or even non ethical as long as everyone knows before hand. I doubt Massa did