[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Xero
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Bill wrote:
15 May 2020, 14:43
The wind tunnel thing seem to me like a lame excuse from Mclaren.The Toyota wind is amongst the best in the business it can accommodate a full car even though only 60% model is allowed. Mclaren main problem is simply they don't have the budget of the top three teams, that may change with the cap.
The Toyota wind tunnel is still an excellent facility, but F1 requirements have outgrown it, it's just not up to scratch anymore. A "lame excuse" would be saying it and doing nothing about it, so surely the significant investment in a brand new state of the art tunnel is enough to establish that fact.

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mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Tim.Wright wrote:
15 May 2020, 20:37
mwillems wrote:
15 May 2020, 14:05
I'll look for the rest, but here is the advertising value of Merc F1 to mercedes.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-f1-value/
http://www.silverarrows.net/news/merced ... ion-wolff/
I'm always skeptical of numbers like these as it's basically the marking department telling everyone what an amazing job they've done.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... nt_111.jpg
hahaha Nice pic.

F1 has 471m unique viewers per year with on average around 102m watching arace worldwide. The superbowl has 98m viewers in america. a 30 second superbowl slot costs around 6.5m. MB get to sit on TV for 2 hours, probably win and look awesome, to an audience the same size as the superbowl but ultimately reaching out to 4.7 times more folks in most countries in the world.

It is based on how much they and Hamilton appear in news and print, in websites like this etc. And the sheer amount of words written about this Mercedes F1 team, in every newspaper in the world, most mainstream TV channels, thousands of websites, forums....

Don't forget that when Hamilton is mentioned, so is Merc, and he reaches out into Art magazines, fashion, style, gossip columns, sports magazines and most mainstream newspapers in the world. And their online versions.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

alexx_88
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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The other side of the story is how many of those viewers can actually afford a new Mercedes. Having great viewership numbers helps with sponsors, as most people buy drinks or deodorant or whatever small logos they plastered on the car. Also keep in mind that a superbowl TV ad allows you to tell a story, whereas in F1 the story is told by what happens on track. Hamilton's Mercedes engine exploding in Malaysia? Part of the story. And yes, while they're winning and being perfect it would be crazy to leave,. but my entire point was based on someone beating them, which is likely give than both Toto and Hamilton seem set to leave in the next few years.

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mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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alexx_88 wrote:
16 May 2020, 06:13
The other side of the story is how many of those viewers can actually afford a new Mercedes. Having great viewership numbers helps with sponsors, as most people buy drinks or deodorant or whatever small logos they plastered on the car. Also keep in mind that a superbowl TV ad allows you to tell a story, whereas in F1 the story is told by what happens on track. Hamilton's Mercedes engine exploding in Malaysia? Part of the story. And yes, while they're winning and being perfect it would be crazy to leave,. but my entire point was based on someone beating them, which is likely give than both Toto and Hamilton seem set to leave in the next few years.
It's going to happen st some point with or without Toto. They will likely leave F1 for commercial reasons such as the move to electric cars, not for being beaten. F1 is massively important for Ferraris image, they haven't won a championship for a while and they still sell cars.

And regarding the value of the unique viewers, Ferrari get 55 % of their revenue from merchandise, and only 45% from cars..... Those viewers dont need to buy a merc or ferrari.


My point is not that they wont leave, just that the reasons given are not clear cut or are just aren't accurate. McLaren get a benefit even when they are losing badly in F1. Car sales reached record highs whilst going through their worst F1 years. It's not always about winning, but creating an image.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

taperoo2k
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Bill wrote:
15 May 2020, 14:43
The wind tunnel thing seem to me like a lame excuse from Mclaren.The Toyota wind is amongst the best in the business it can accommodate a full car even though only 60% model is allowed. Mclaren main problem is simply they don't have the budget of the top three teams, that may change with the cap.
It's not a lame excuse, having a wind tunnel that you can tailor and update to your needs is a benefit you just won't get from using someone else's wind tunnel. McLaren will be able to design a new wing for example, build the model for the wind tunnel and then make modifications if needed in a much quicker time frame i.e. Get the design signed off and into production for the race team to test on track that much faster.

The main issue for McLaren is not the lack of funding compared to the top teams, it's been the poor allocation of resources to get the best out of the team, which is being rectified. Mercedes has bucket loads of cash to spend, but if they weren't as highly organised as they are they'd be like Ferrari, inconsistent car designs and poor decision making during races (yes Mercedes have made some absolute howlers but for the most part they've won races or got the points they've needed). McLaren getting it's house in order in terms of organisation, but that's what's needed to get ready for the next era of F1. The sport is still slowly transitioning away from how Bernie ran things into something we don't quite yet know what the final shape of F1 will be under it's current owners. If there is a budget cap, McLaren has a chance at getting back to the top as it will be used to getting the best out of a smaller budget compared to the top teams who may struggle a bit to get to grips with it.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Bill wrote:
15 May 2020, 14:43
The wind tunnel thing seem to me like a lame excuse from Mclaren.The Toyota wind is amongst the best in the business it can accommodate a full car even though only 60% model is allowed. Mclaren main problem is simply they don't have the budget of the top three teams, that may change with the cap.
I never heard McLaren use the Toyota wind tunnel as an excuse.

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Jackles-UK
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
18 May 2020, 01:52
Bill wrote:
15 May 2020, 14:43
The wind tunnel thing seem to me like a lame excuse from Mclaren.The Toyota wind is amongst the best in the business it can accommodate a full car even though only 60% model is allowed. Mclaren main problem is simply they don't have the budget of the top three teams, that may change with the cap.
I never heard McLaren use the Toyota wind tunnel as an excuse.
It was one of the theories kicking around as to why they missed the terrible issue with the 2018 car but, like you say, it was never officially confirmed by the team. Modern wind tunnels can more accurately simulate the forces when the car is in yaw or experiencing cross-winds and I don’t think the Toyota one can quite as effectively.

The fact that McLaren are only now spending huge money on a brand new, state-of-the-art wind tunnel at the MTC so soon after an issue with correlation only adds fuel to the fire.

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I am curious when the championship is gonna start. Are we gonna ever see where the car stands? I also wonder if the team abandoned this year for the next.

M840TR
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
18 May 2020, 19:43
I am curious when the championship is gonna start. Are we gonna ever see where the car stands? I also wonder if the team abandoned this year for the next.
Same regs.

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Darth-Piekus wrote:I am curious when the championship is gonna start. Are we gonna ever see where the car stands? I also wonder if the team abandoned this year for the next.
So far, July seems to be when racing will resume... Doubt they will abandon this year’s car since it will be the base for next year car also and with development halted for 2021, they have to get this one as far as they possibly can... So my guess is that it will be all hands on deck for 2020 and 2021 and worry about 22 next year.


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frosty125
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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All the F1 factories are still shut so there is no development.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Jackles-UK wrote:
18 May 2020, 14:14
diffuser wrote:
18 May 2020, 01:52
Bill wrote:
15 May 2020, 14:43
The wind tunnel thing seem to me like a lame excuse from Mclaren.The Toyota wind is amongst the best in the business it can accommodate a full car even though only 60% model is allowed. Mclaren main problem is simply they don't have the budget of the top three teams, that may change with the cap.
I never heard McLaren use the Toyota wind tunnel as an excuse.
It was one of the theories kicking around as to why they missed the terrible issue with the 2018 car but, like you say, it was never officially confirmed by the team. Modern wind tunnels can more accurately simulate the forces when the car is in yaw or experiencing cross-winds and I don’t think the Toyota one can quite as effectively.

The fact that McLaren are only now spending huge money on a brand new, state-of-the-art wind tunnel at the MTC so soon after an issue with correlation only adds fuel to the fire.
Yeah, my understanding was they just missed the tire wake messing the side pod flow in curves. Thought the cap was the trigger for building the tunnel. That it will be harder to build when the ccap is in place.

You probably save money on paying for hotels, air, misc expenses for the crews and transportation costs for pieces. It's easily $1000 per week per person +air.

Plus right now....not certain anyone can travel to Cologne.

rayden
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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frosty125 wrote:
18 May 2020, 20:55
All the F1 factories are still shut so there is no development.
There absolutely is. Designers own laptops.

f1rules
f1rules
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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its closed officially but... if its a team with real hunger to win, i would expect personal to make great use of this time!

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mclaren111
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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M840TR wrote:
18 May 2020, 19:51
Darth-Piekus wrote:
18 May 2020, 19:43
I am curious when the championship is gonna start. Are we gonna ever see where the car stands? I also wonder if the team abandoned this year for the next.
Same regs.
We are changing to Merc PU... Lots of work for us...