[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[sosic2121]

But it definitely was not do or die situation...... so it was a bit premature to blow it off in the singapore gp itself; there were 175 points available! All he needed to do was beat Lewis in every race from then on, no matter where they finished

Absolutely impossible task considering how 2017 season went so far.
Only race from 6 remaining that Seb could hope to out qualify Lewis was Mexico.
Mercedes had upper hand in Q and overtaking was extremely hard.

Also, Seb had no way of knowing that Kimi had incredible start.

So you are saying it was DO or DIE in singapore GP ??
No wonder he has not won any championship
And i didnt know that the race finished in the very first corner and he need to be first before the second corner to win the title!

I certainly felt BEFORE the start that it was do or die moment.
Not many overtakes happen in Singapore, especially with 2017 car.

Of course, we now know that it would be better that he let Max into T1, but at that moment he was half a car in front and had to be clear P1 before T1 to prevent Max from putting him into the wall.

IF Kimi wasn't there he would be in front and in side of Max before T1 and race would be almost won. Unfortunately it didn't work as expected

[LM10]

So what exactly has all that stuff which has been written in the last few pages to do with 2020 Ferrari team?

Vettel is leaving the team and some people still feel the need to do detailed analysis on how he was or might have been the cause of this or that imcident in races which are long gone.

Hope the thread gets some cleaning to be on topic again.

[joshuagore]

So what exactly has all that stuff which has been written in the last few pages to do with 2020 Ferrari team?

Vettel is leaving the team and some people still feel the need to do detailed analysis on how he was or might have been the cause of this or that imcident in races which are long gone.

Hope the thread gets some cleaning to be on topic again.

I think everyone just is missing racing and willing to talk about any drama, even irrelevant past drama. You can see everyone is desperate for sport, so we churn old butter.

[GPR-A]

So what exactly has all that stuff which has been written in the last few pages to do with 2020 Ferrari team?

Vettel is leaving the team and some people still feel the need to do detailed analysis on how he was or might have been the cause of this or that imcident in races which are long gone.

Hope the thread gets some cleaning to be on topic again.

In these difficult times, user traffic is more important than the sanity of the forum and rules. What say @Hollus?

[SAEED]

Singapore 2010 will also provide a perspective.

If there was no Kimi - Seb could successfully close the racing line and save his lead position in that race but sht happens. But again - it's 100% not Kimi's mistake, he made super start.

How is that a valid excuse even for a rookie driver, not to mention a 4x WDC? People that move across to cut others off normally do it either slowly or after they've cleared them, they don't just vigorously move across the entire track hoping that the other drivers see them and yield.

Same situation - Ham moved to the left, Kimi also moved to the left, but imagine if there was someone at that moment who tried to overtake Kimi and he didn't notice him? Ham did it slowly?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNwPpqaLE60

[siskue2005]

Singapore 2010 will also provide a perspective.

Remarkably similar chop i have to say, but atleast Alonso did that on a dry track

[vogonvader]

But it definitely was not do or die situation...... so it was a bit premature to blow it off in the singapore gp itself; there were 175 points available! All he needed to do was beat Lewis in every race from then on, no matter where they finished

Absolutely impossible task considering how 2017 season went so far.
Only race from 6 remaining that Seb could hope to out qualify Lewis was Mexico.
Mercedes had upper hand in Q and overtaking was extremely hard.

Also, Seb had no way of knowing that Kimi had incredible start.

So you are saying it was DO or DIE in singapore GP ??
No wonder he has not won any championship
And i didnt know that the race finished in the very first corner and he need to be first before the second corner to win the title!

If you can't figure out why it was such an important race for Vettel's WDC race, you probably haven't seen that season beginning to the end and you don't know what the de facto power rankings were like at the time so you can't rationalize. You don't know about the pu/oil burning controversies and how Mercedes pulled a sneaky on Ferrari in the 2nd half. In retrospect, so many people tend to play up SF70H's performance by combining the situation in 2018 into the matter. In reality 2018 car was indeed competitive against the Merc, SF70H was not that much whatsoever.

That year, it was a lottery for Ferrari at every weekend if the car would be competitive or not while Mercedes turned out to be the car to beat at almost any instance. Mercedes had a psychological "high ground" that created insecurity in fans and the drivers.

So in that aspect, it was easier for Hamilton to yield 1st place when he knew he would easily get another pole the next weekend while Seb hardly got a pole every now and then and he didn't know when the next chance would arise, he had to capitulate on every chance.

You said Vettel couldn't predict the car's performance after Singapore. There was no need for that. Go check out how the rest of the season played out.

Ferrari outright got defeated in Japan, USA, Brazil & Abu Dhabi. W08 made Ferrari look like a GP2 car in USA and Mercedes was going to easily dominate Brazil if Hamilton hadn't crashed in the quali.

In Mexico Vettel hardly squeezed a pole while his teammate qualified 0.8sec behind, could have managed another one in Malaysia, do give that to Vettel as well.

Still it was 4-2 in favor of Mercedes, without a single reliability issue on their side.

[Jolle]

Singapore 2010 will also provide a perspective.

Remarkably similar chop i have to say, but atleast Alonso did that on a dry track

Plus having a good start and checking his mirrors if there were no cars next to the chopped one.

there is a reason Vettel crashes in cases like this and Alonso and Hamilton don't.

[hollus]

I hear a cry for clarity and transparency here...

We often ask people to post about drivers and performance in the team threads. This is written in the first post of just about every car thread:

General discussion about the team, its drivers and performance can be posted in the team thread.

We try to be quite strict in the car threads and in the PU threads and a lot more loose on the team threads, which are bound to soak up a mix of money, politics, egos, personalities, drivers and battles anyways. The 2020 in the title is not to be taken too literally, it is only the team thread open during the 2020 season.

That said, moving on from a corner by corner analysis of 2017 would be very welcome.

[siskue2005]

Absolutely impossible task considering how 2017 season went so far.
Only race from 6 remaining that Seb could hope to out qualify Lewis was Mexico.
Mercedes had upper hand in Q and overtaking was extremely hard.

Also, Seb had no way of knowing that Kimi had incredible start.

So you are saying it was DO or DIE in singapore GP ??
No wonder he has not won any championship
And i didnt know that the race finished in the very first corner and he need to be first before the second corner to win the title!

If you can't figure out why it was such an important race for Vettel's WDC race, you probably haven't seen that season beginning to the end and you don't know what the de facto power rankings were like at the time so you can't rationalize. You don't know about the pu/oil burning controversies and how Mercedes pulled a sneaky on Ferrari in the 2nd half. In retrospect, so many people tend to play up SF70H's performance by combining the situation in 2018 into the matter. In reality 2018 car was indeed competitive against the Merc, SF70H was not that much whatsoever.

Did anyone say it was not important??
Maybe you dont have enough experience in life to know that not every decision is do or die! Important yes but not do or die to throw everything away in the very first corner.

So in that aspect, it was easier for Hamilton to yield 1st place when he knew he would easily get another pole the next weekend while Seb hardly got a pole every now and then and he didn't know when the next chance would arise, he had to capitulate on every chance.

Nope that is called maturity and fight anther day, Lose the Battle and win the War.
That race Both Ferrari and Redbull were faster than Merc, there was no way to know for him too of what will happen in the next 5 race.

You said Vettel couldn't predict the car's performance after Singapore. There was no need for that. Go check out how the rest of the season played out.

How could vettel know about the next race and read the future while on the grid at singapore?

[siskue2005]

Singapore 2010 will also provide a perspective.

Remarkably similar chop i have to say, but atleast Alonso did that on a dry track

Plus having a good start and checking his mirrors if there were no cars next to the chopped one.

there is a reason Vettel crashes in cases like this and Alonso and Hamilton don't.

Yup true, there are countless instances like that

[vogonvader]

So you are saying it was DO or DIE in singapore GP ??
No wonder he has not won any championship
And i didnt know that the race finished in the very first corner and he need to be first before the second corner to win the title!

If you can't figure out why it was such an important race for Vettel's WDC race, you probably haven't seen that season beginning to the end and you don't know what the de facto power rankings were like at the time so you can't rationalize. You don't know about the pu/oil burning controversies and how Mercedes pulled a sneaky on Ferrari in the 2nd half. In retrospect, so many people tend to play up SF70H's performance by combining the situation in 2018 into the matter. In reality 2018 car was indeed competitive against the Merc, SF70H was not that much whatsoever.

Did anyone say it was not important??
Maybe you dont have enough experience in life to know that not every decision is do or die! Important yes but not do or die to throw everything away in the very first corner.

So in that aspect, it was easier for Hamilton to yield 1st place when he knew he would easily get another pole the next weekend while Seb hardly got a pole every now and then and he didn't know when the next chance would arise, he had to capitulate on every chance.

Nope that is called maturity and fight anther day, Lose the Battle and win the War.
That race Both Ferrari and Redbull were faster than Merc, there was no way to know for him too of what will happen in the next 5 race.

You said Vettel couldn't predict the car's performance after Singapore. There was no need for that. Go check out how the rest of the season played out.

How could vettel know about the next race and read the future while on the grid at singapore?

Well, maybe try reading sentences in context instead of isolating a single word from it.

I said such an important race; "such" substituting for "a win or go home race". Not solely "an important race".

Funny to to say that not every decision is a do or die. I didn't say anything like that. Again, I said it was a do or die for Vettel considering Ferrari and Mercedes' past coming up to that race. If all you make of that is "every decision is a do or die", well I can't do nothing about that.

And yeah, knowing when to put up a fight and when to let it go is indeed maturity and it's definitely easier to do so when you have the best car and team infrastructure in the history of the sport behind you, you know you'll have the best car in the next races, in the following several seasons in fact. You know your team won't shoot yourselves in the foot at a critical moment, then you can of course be less aggressive when needed.

This is like saying it's a virtue for a well off rich person to not bother picking up a $10 dollar bill he spotted on the ground. He's already got plenty of it and is earning much more than that whereas a homeless guy would rush to pick up the bill. He doesn't know if there'll be a next chance.

Also at that moment everyone were aware of what'd happened in the previous 3 years. The greatest dominance in the history. Everybody knew Mercedes car was going to be faster. He didn't need to know in advance that Merc would be faster.

[siskue2005]

Absolutely impossible task considering how 2017 season went so far.
Only race from 6 remaining that Seb could hope to out qualify Lewis was Mexico.
Mercedes had upper hand in Q and overtaking was extremely hard.

Also, Seb had no way of knowing that Kimi had incredible start.

So you are saying it was DO or DIE in singapore GP ??
No wonder he has not won any championship
And i didnt know that the race finished in the very first corner and he need to be first before the second corner to win the title!

I certainly felt BEFORE the start that it was do or die moment.
Not many overtakes happen in Singapore, especially with 2017 car.

Of course, we now know that it would be better that he let Max into T1, but at that moment he was half a car in front and had to be clear P1 before T1 to prevent Max from putting him into the wall.

IF Kimi wasn't there he would be in front and in side of Max before T1 and race would be almost won. Unfortunately it didn't work as expected

Yeah true, after watching the Alono's 2010 start which was remarkably similar to Vettel except for Kimi being there ... if there were just Vettel and Max then there would not be any contact. And cant imagine what would have a happened in the next coming races... Lewis and Mercedes would have taken more risk to close the gap and it would have come down to last race to decide the title..... Mostly we were robbed of a great championship prematurely due to that incident.
As i said before i still believe he should have lost the battle and hopefully won the War and fought another day.

[TAG]

Yeah true, after watching the Alono's 2010 start which was remarkably similar to Vettel except for Kimi being there ... if there were just Vettel and Max then there would not be any contact.

The question you should be asking is; if it was Alonso, Verstappen and Kimi, would Alonso have crashed into Kimi. He's known to have great peripheral awareness which is the reason he's often able to make great starts. Being aggressive is the easy part.

[siskue2005]

Yeah true, after watching the Alono's 2010 start which was remarkably similar to Vettel except for Kimi being there ... if there were just Vettel and Max then there would not be any contact.

The question you should be asking is; if it was Alonso, Verstappen and Kimi, would Alonso have crashed into Kimi. He's known to have great peripheral awareness which is the reason he's often able to make great starts. Being aggressive is the easy part.

True, i never was an Alonso fan, only now i am starting to appreciate his skills, some of his race starts were phenomenal over the years.... and his placement of car in such tight situations in start and close fights have always been top notch.... and coming to your point, yes i think Alonso wouldnot have crashed in the same situation even if there was Kimi and Lewis on the other side of Max

Just look at his 2013 Spanish GP start and race overtakes


Only other driver with equal awareness i would say is schumacher, then closely followed by Lewis