[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Gothrek
Gothrek
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 06:50
Leclerc seems to be pulling Alonso 2012 though!
After 1 race where he did nothing special and just had a lot of dumb luck?
Can we say the same about Bottas dominating Hamilton then?

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Gothrek wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 23:25
PlatinumZealot wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 06:50
Leclerc seems to be pulling Alonso 2012 though!
After 1 race where he did nothing special and just had a lot of dumb luck?
Can we say the same about Bottas dominating Hamilton then?
Hamilton had the faster pace so no comparison.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/jolyon-pa ... tas-seven/

For LeClerc i mean taking the car by the scruff of the neck putting it where it doesn't belong.
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Racing Green in 2028

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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AngelicPrincess wrote:So I wrote a script that records the speed of the car from the onboard qualy laps, sampling at a constant rate. The math is then straight forward to calculate the distance covered and plot the results as shown below. The laps taken into account are; Bottas', Leclerc's and Verstappen's.

Image

What I find interesting is that the Ferrari seems to be doing very well at high speed corners. Although that might be because of Leclerc and not the car, from the data and the video he seems to be chucking the car in the corners carrying more speed and letting it scrub off before the apex.

The table below shows a breakdown of the time deltas. (S1 for straight 1, T1 for turn 1 etc.)

Image
Awesome data! Thanks for sharing

Any chance you could do something similar with Norris’s lap?


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AMG.Tzan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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I don't know what Ferrari are thinking if their aero developments aren't anything special as Binotto claims! You can't change the car much for 2021...so are they ready to become 4-5th fastest team for 2020-2021??

Or are they gunning for 2022?? Maybe...but also their power unit is down on power...they seem to be last in terms of HP as things stand in straight line speed measurements! They have to get their act together...otherwise i don't see them gunning for WDC/WCC in 2022 and beyond!
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

bill shoe
bill shoe
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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AngelicPrincess wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 19:01
So I wrote a script that records the speed of the car from the onboard qualy laps, sampling at a constant rate. The math is then straight forward to calculate the distance covered and plot the results as shown below. The laps taken into account are; Bottas', Leclerc's and Verstappen's.

Image
Ferrari seems to be dead-equal with Merc and RB/Honda from 150-250 kph. Then Ferrari has substantial fall-off (compared to Merc & RB) from 260 kph and higher.

This looks like either less time from MGU-K output, and/or significantly higher drag.

That's surprising because those symptoms don't seem to fit with the meme of Ferrari having a fuel-flow trick that was curtailed by the recent FIA settlement.

AngelicPrincess
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 20:27

Outstanding work, bravo.
May I ask the sampling rate?
The video available to me was 25 FPS. Analysing it frame by frame i found that the speed graphic was refreshing every other frame. So that is what I sampled. It equates to 12.5 Hz, 0.08 seconds per sample.

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Andres125sx
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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The car has some problems, that´s obvious. But Lecrerc was 2nd with that car

Maybe it´s more of Lecrerc talent than Ferrari perfomance, but we´re talking about a 4xWDC, he should be the one making the most of the car, but he was 10th

AngelicPrincess
AngelicPrincess
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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SmallSoldier wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 00:16

Awesome data! Thanks for sharing

Any chance you could do something similar with Norris’s lap?


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What are you expecting to find in a comparison between Lec and Nor? Anything in particular you are interested in?

timbo
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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bill shoe wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 00:55
This looks like either less time from MGU-K output, and/or significantly higher drag.
In the race the car was faster relative to other cars, so I guess drag must be ruled out.

AngelicPrincess
AngelicPrincess
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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bill shoe wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 00:55

Ferrari seems to be dead-equal with Merc and RB/Honda from 150-250 kph. Then Ferrari has substantial fall-off (compared to Merc & RB) from 260 kph and higher.

This looks like either less time from MGU-K output, and/or significantly higher drag.

That's surprising because those symptoms don't seem to fit with the meme of Ferrari having a fuel-flow trick that was curtailed by the recent FIA settlement.
Examining each straight by itself you can see that the Merc and Red Bull start to pull away at around 180 km/h. By my rough calculations that is where the cars would transition from traction limitation to power limitation.

In order to further my investigation I created a straight line model and varied the parameters in an attempt to fit the data. The curves fit well if you were to set the parameter for power to be 6% lower across the rev range for the Ferrari compared to the Merc while drag being 3% higher.

If we were to assume that the Ferrari produces the same amount of power as the Merc, then the SF1000 would need to produce 15% more drag than the Merc which I think is highly unlikely. Plus the curve doesn't fit as well.

EDIT: Furthermore, if we were to assume that the PUs produce around 1000 BHP then the Ferrari PU is lacking around 60 HP which doesn't seem unreasonable.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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AngelicPrincess wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 00:16

Awesome data! Thanks for sharing

Any chance you could do something similar with Norris’s lap?


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What are you expecting to find in a comparison between Lec and Nor? Anything in particular you are interested in?
I was just wondering if we could add Norris to the comparison with Bottas, Leclerc and Verstappen, I am intrigued in regards to where Mclaren is lacking towards the others and where they might be making gains.

What you did gives a lot of light into where the strengths and weaknesses of each car reside... Thanks again for the contribution!


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fritticaldi
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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The Ferrari is flawed in the following areas: Engine, Chassis and Aero. Basically the entire technical staff should get fired.

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JordanMugen
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Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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AngelicPrincess wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 12:49
EDIT: Furthermore, if we were to assume that the PUs produce around 1000 BHP then the Ferrari PU is lacking around 60 HP which doesn't seem unreasonable.
=D> =D> =D>

Thank you for such a great analysis!

AMG.Tzan wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 00:26
they seem to be last in terms of HP as things stand in straight line speed measurements! They have to get their act together...
There are no silver bullets in power unit development, it will require steady gains that do not compromise reliability. :wink:

It seems Ferrari had concentrated on power unit developments which are no longer permitted, so it will take some time to catch back up to Renault, Honda and Mercedes.

fritticaldi wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 16:51
The Ferrari is flawed in the following areas: Engine, Chassis and Aero. Basically the entire technical staff should get fired.
Fired and replaced with whom? :roll: That will not achieve anything. There are plenty of talented engineers in these departments, it would be most unwise to let go of them. Firing people is the Ferrari way, but it is not productive. You need stability to achieve good results.

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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AngelicPrincess wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 12:49
bill shoe wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 00:55

Ferrari seems to be dead-equal with Merc and RB/Honda from 150-250 kph. Then Ferrari has substantial fall-off (compared to Merc & RB) from 260 kph and higher.

This looks like either less time from MGU-K output, and/or significantly higher drag.

That's surprising because those symptoms don't seem to fit with the meme of Ferrari having a fuel-flow trick that was curtailed by the recent FIA settlement.
Examining each straight by itself you can see that the Merc and Red Bull start to pull away at around 180 km/h. By my rough calculations that is where the cars would transition from traction limitation to power limitation.

In order to further my investigation I created a straight line model and varied the parameters in an attempt to fit the data. The curves fit well if you were to set the parameter for power to be 6% lower across the rev range for the Ferrari compared to the Merc while drag being 3% higher.

If we were to assume that the Ferrari produces the same amount of power as the Merc, then the SF1000 would need to produce 15% more drag than the Merc which I think is highly unlikely. Plus the curve doesn't fit as well.

EDIT: Furthermore, if we were to assume that the PUs produce around 1000 BHP then the Ferrari PU is lacking around 60 HP which doesn't seem unreasonable.
I would like to know, with the same approach, how much power disadvantage does the Honda PU have compared to the Mercedes one?

AngelicPrincess
AngelicPrincess
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Xwang wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 17:25

I would like to know, with the same approach, how much power disadvantage does the Honda PU have compared to the Mercedes one?
I would be very wary of using my methods to give more numbers as there is inherent uncertainty in my "measurement" and it is a very simple straight line model. However I did try to fit the model to the RB curve and because the RB and Merc curves are so close it is very hard to tell. My model says anywhere from 2% down on power with the same drag to 3% more drag with the same power or any combination in between.