2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

[Pyrone89]

Button was very good, one of the best, but not a juggernaut in the rain . Anybody who knows Button, knows that his a master of "changing conditions." He has a 6th sense of when is the right time to change tires. He has won most of his wet races this way.

Also part of the wet skill set. Just like line picking, reaction speed, throttle application.

[Scorpaguy]

I cannot remember Vet's wet drives in the RB...but he certainly merits no praise for his rain skills while at Big Red. However, I would assume that such skills deteriorate before others. Actually, I really cannot remember a Ferrari ace in the wet...maybe Schumi. Lec seems to have all the rain prowess of a Gila Monster...even at Williams. I would love to see Max and Ham in equal cars duke it out in a downpour...especially the Ham of about 5 years ago.

[Pyrone89]

I cannot remember Vet's wet drives in the RB...but he certainly merits no praise for his rain skills while at Big Red. However, I would assume that such skills deteriorate before others. Actually, I really cannot remember a Ferrari ace in the wet...maybe Schumi. Lec seems to have all the rain prowess of a Gila Monster...even at Williams. I would love to see Max and Ham in equal cars duke it out in a downpour...especially the Ham of about 5 years ago.

Might wanna go to Youtube and look for Schumacher Ferrari wet drives
Lauda was no slouch either

[ENGINE TUNER]

At what point do we put to bed this crazy notion that Max is somehow a rain god?

That what my lasting thought was after watching the highlights just now. 1.2 seconds clear of anybody? What?!?

Might wanna check Hamilton vs Button in the rain.

And nobody is saying Max is a rain god. Both he and Hamilton are a class above the rest in the wet. And Stroll funninly enough is also very good in the wet.

Button was never better or faster in the wet(or dry) than Hamilton, he only ever finished ahead of him on an alternate strategy.

Max is excellent in the rain, but he makes more mistakes in it than Hamilton does, but he has some impressive and or very lucky saves.

[Pyrone89]

At what point do we put to bed this crazy notion that Max is somehow a rain god?

That what my lasting thought was after watching the highlights just now. 1.2 seconds clear of anybody? What?!?

Might wanna check Hamilton vs Button in the rain.

And nobody is saying Max is a rain god. Both he and Hamilton are a class above the rest in the wet. And Stroll funninly enough is also very good in the wet.

Button was never better or faster in the wet(or dry) than Hamilton, he only ever finished ahead of him on an alternate strategy.

Max is excellent in the rain, but he makes more mistakes in it than Hamilton does, but he has some impressive and or very lucky saves.

Disagree, check Button’s wet drives on Youtube.

[Wynters]

I don't think Seb has the edge. I understand your opinion, but what was the gap? A tenth? Less? I don't think speed wise they were different last weekend and I don't think there is a gap this weekend either. Vettel had his customary over driving moment of madness last week and Leclerc maximised his result from the mayhem around him, but the bottomline simply is that Ferrari don't have the car, speed, team or leadership. The situation has been so since 2009 and actually their drivers have always been the least of the issues.

In a nutshell, to answer your question I think Leclerc is faster on Saturdays's and Vettel has better pace on Sunday's. The both have been guilty of mistakes in the last year and this is honestly true of any driver on the grid but, results mask a lot of things in this sport.

Interesting and I appreciate the insight. You are right about the gap (0.083) and about the performance of Ferrari in general too (I still wince when I recall 2014).

Where do you think Vettel's edge in pace on Sundays comes from? Is this a gap you think Leclerc will close? Or could close? Or neither?

[Phil]

Button was very good, one of the best, but not a juggernaut in the rain . Anybody who knows Button, knows that his a master of "changing conditions." He has a 6th sense of when is the right time to change tires. He has won most of his wet races this way.

I loved Jenson, but boy is his “6th sense” of changing condition a myth. You should go back and rewatch those races and then you will see that they all came from when being out of position when he had little to lose and all to gain. When it worked, and they did at times, everyone talked about it, when it didnt, no one cared because he was way down the grid anyway.

Fair play, he could drive in those conditions and make it work, but he only took those risks of i.e. going on a slick tire, because he was already way down the pack compared to Lewis who was right at the front, therefore, all to gain and little to lose.

[Wynters]

Just rewatching the interviews. Ocon was on used tyres in Q3.

The race should be cracking. Green track, mixed up grid. Exciting times!

[ENGINE TUNER]

Button was very good, one of the best, but not a juggernaut in the rain . Anybody who knows Button, knows that his a master of "changing conditions." He has a 6th sense of when is the right time to change tires. He has won most of his wet races this way.

I loved Jenson, but boy is his “6th sense” of changing condition a myth. You should go back and rewatch those races and then you will see that they all came from when being out of position when he had little to lose and all to gain. When it worked, and they did at times, everyone talked about it, when it didnt, no one cared because he was way down the grid anyway.

Fair play, he could drive in those conditions and make it work, but he only took those risks of i.e. going on a slick tire, because he was already way down the pack compared to Lewis who was right at the front, therefore, all to gain and little to lose.

Exactly right

[ENGINE TUNER]

Might wanna check Hamilton vs Button in the rain.

And nobody is saying Max is a rain god. Both he and Hamilton are a class above the rest in the wet. And Stroll funninly enough is also very good in the wet.

Button was never better or faster in the wet(or dry) than Hamilton, he only ever finished ahead of him on an alternate strategy.

Max is excellent in the rain, but he makes more mistakes in it than Hamilton does, but he has some impressive and or very lucky saves.

Disagree, check Button’s wet drives on Youtube.

Watched them live and afterwards again, not impressed.

[Pyrone89]

Canada 2011 comes to mind. He was in front of Lewis. Also remember an Australian GP that year or 2010.

[Pyrone89]

Ofcourse it is a massive difference if you are always driving the best car. The whole 'rain is the great equalizer' is a myth, as Villeneuve also said today. It changes emphasize, for example from pure engine power to engine drivability, but the best car is still the best car. Put Hamilton in the Renault and see if he takes pole. Newsflash, he wont.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Canada 2011 comes to mind. He was in front of Lewis. Also remember an Australian GP that year or 2010.

HAM was way ahead of BUT, tangled with WEB(mostly HAMs fault), fell behind BUT but quickly caught up to him and went for a pass after BUT made a big mistake out of the last chicane, BUT went off the drier line and hit HAM. Once again BUT was not great, mostly just lucky.

[Pyrone89]

Perhaps speed wise, but he also had the uncanny ability to crash the car and tangle with other drivers before he got the Mercedes (apart from his 2008 stand-out season) which basically is start at the front and drive away. Very much like the on this forum often critized Verstappen now (who is now at the age that Hamilton debuted). In his Davidson 2019 interview in Borneo he even said so himself.

[Pyrone89]

Now with regards to tomorrow's race. Due to the W11's superior speed on the RB16 in all corners apart from slow speed, I fully expect Hamilton to drive into the distance for an easy win and Verstappen battling hard with the other W11 for the second place.