2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

[Moore77]

Hamilton Vs Verstappen. Last lap compared. [Credit to @Juzh]

[tangodjango]

Latest weather info? Marko says RB only have a chance if it is hot.

apparently he said that they are 60-40 favourites if it's hot, while it's the opposite around if it's not.

Both seems like a vast overestimation to me

What do you expect from Horner and Marko. Yesterday to German media Marko was bleating that the 1.2 seconds wasn't representative and both him and Horner said that the gap to Lewis would have been two to three tenths without the spin. I don't know what qualifying they were watching but Lewis was already 6-7 tenths on Max's lap on his own last lap. Also in Hockenheim 19 post race Marko straight up made BS claims like Max was 5 seconds faster than anyone when he was stuck behind Bottas for much of the race. Of course Max is superlative in the rain but I honestly suspect that he is half embarrassed at times by the garbage that comes out of Marko's and Horner's mouth often. How difficult is it to simply admit that your competition was on a different level.

[Pyrone89]

Latest weather info? Marko says RB only have a chance if it is hot.

apparently he said that they are 60-40 favourites if it's hot, while it's the opposite around if it's not.

Both seems like a vast overestimation to me

What do you expect from Horner and Marko. Yesterday to German media Marko was bleating that the 1.2 seconds wasn't representative and both him and Horner said that the gap to Lewis would have been two to three tenths without the spin. I don't know what qualifying they were watching but Lewis was already 6-7 tenths on Max's lap on his own last lap. Also in Hockenheim 19 post race Marko straight up made BS claims like Max was 5 seconds faster than anyone when he was stuck behind Bottas for much of the race. Of course Max is superlative in the rain but I honestly suspect that he is half embarrassed at times by the garbage that comes out of Marko's and Horner's mouth often. How difficult is it to simply admit that your competition was on a different level.

Actually the 5 seconds in Germany 2019 referred to the period after SC and that was true because in 1 lap he went from 0 to 5 seconds ahead and then pitted. Not really a large dataset but technically he was right.

Marko is the anti-Toto. They are both full of it. Marko is constantly bluffing while Toto is constantly playing the underdog even if they have half a second advantage. Best to take the middle of what they say.

[Restomaniac]

Latest weather info? Marko says RB only have a chance if it is hot.

apparently he said that they are 60-40 favourites if it's hot, while it's the opposite around if it's not.

Both seems like a vast overestimation to me

What do you expect from Horner and Marko. Yesterday to German media Marko was bleating that the 1.2 seconds wasn't representative and both him and Horner said that the gap to Lewis would have been two to three tenths without the spin. I don't know what qualifying they were watching but Lewis was already 6-7 tenths on Max's lap on his own last lap. Also in Hockenheim 19 post race Marko straight up made BS claims like Max was 5 seconds faster than anyone when he was stuck behind Bottas for much of the race. Of course Max is superlative in the rain but I honestly suspect that he is half embarrassed at times by the garbage that comes out of Marko's and Horner's mouth often. How difficult is it to simply admit that your competition was on a different level.

It is rather funny to listen to them at times. I honestly get the impression that they think others are clueless all the time. That two to three tenths is clearly utter BS and it’s not even hard to disprove (As Sky in the UK proved).

[Pyrone89]

apparently he said that they are 60-40 favourites if it's hot, while it's the opposite around if it's not.

Both seems like a vast overestimation to me

What do you expect from Horner and Marko. Yesterday to German media Marko was bleating that the 1.2 seconds wasn't representative and both him and Horner said that the gap to Lewis would have been two to three tenths without the spin. I don't know what qualifying they were watching but Lewis was already 6-7 tenths on Max's lap on his own last lap. Also in Hockenheim 19 post race Marko straight up made BS claims like Max was 5 seconds faster than anyone when he was stuck behind Bottas for much of the race. Of course Max is superlative in the rain but I honestly suspect that he is half embarrassed at times by the garbage that comes out of Marko's and Horner's mouth often. How difficult is it to simply admit that your competition was on a different level.

It is rather funny to listen to them at times. I honestly get the impression that they think others are clueless all the time. That two to three tenths is clearly utter BS and it’s not even hard to disprove (As Sky in the UK proved).

For starters, last week we saw the RB16 is at least more than 5 tenths away from Bottas in dry conditions, let alone Hamilton (who is better than Bottas but had a horrible weekend last time). So how on earth they expect them to be within 3 tenths only a week later, same tracks, in conditions that do no favor high-rake concepts is a big question mark too. Even if he didn't have the Vettel moment, he would have been at least 6 to 7 tenths behind the Mercedes as is expected based on the quali performance from the first race.

I sometimes fear Max and his management is under te spell of these false promises by Marko and Horner and that is why he keeps re-signing contracts with them, when everyone else basically sees that they are not near Mercedes and that if he is serious about getting WDC's even if it means less money (his words) he should sign with Mercedes when given the chance.

[e30ernest]

Pretty mega lap from Hamilton under the circumstances. A few things worth pointing out.

• The Q3 grid order is inversely correlated with number of laps recorded. Doing an extra lap or two probably helped to familiarize the driver with conditions, gave them extra chances to hook up a lap, and put their tyres in the right window at the right time.

• Hamilton's qualifying time was set later in the session than anybody else. I suspect he made the best of what he had at exactly the right time. Bottas definitely did not.

• By comparison with other onboard footage, Hamilton's car looked extremely stable.

• Barely any steering correction out of turn 1, and little wheel spin.

• He took an extremely wide line into the hairpin (officially turn 3) at the top of the hill, some correction upon application of throttle on exit, but relatively little wheel spin.

• Turn 4, some twitching, but again, quite stable, and really early throttle application.

• Turn 6, had two bites at the wheel, but no opposite lock.

• Turn 7 and 8, probably the only wobbly moment during the lap, fighting the car to generate change in direction.

• Turn 9 and 10. Very controlled.

Its difficult to point at any moment in isolation as the differentiator in lap time. I suspect everybody else made mistakes, while Hamilton made observably few (if any).

I think a large part of that stability is his excellent car control at the limit. Watching the lap he uses minimal steering input, opting to rotate the car through braking or throttle control. It was a really amazing lap IMO.

It was also the last lap so he did not have in mind that an off would finish his session. Nothing to lose, no safety margin, balls out

True. I also forgot to mention that he did this on a very short circuit... That gap in such a short track makes it even more impressive IMO. I really feel bad that didn't get to watch this live...

[tangodjango]

What do you expect from Horner and Marko. Yesterday to German media Marko was bleating that the 1.2 seconds wasn't representative and both him and Horner said that the gap to Lewis would have been two to three tenths without the spin. I don't know what qualifying they were watching but Lewis was already 6-7 tenths on Max's lap on his own last lap. Also in Hockenheim 19 post race Marko straight up made BS claims like Max was 5 seconds faster than anyone when he was stuck behind Bottas for much of the race. Of course Max is superlative in the rain but I honestly suspect that he is half embarrassed at times by the garbage that comes out of Marko's and Horner's mouth often. How difficult is it to simply admit that your competition was on a different level.

It is rather funny to listen to them at times. I honestly get the impression that they think others are clueless all the time. That two to three tenths is clearly utter BS and it’s not even hard to disprove (As Sky in the UK proved).

For starters, last week we saw the RB16 is at least more than 5 tenths away from Bottas in dry conditions, let alone Hamilton (who is better than Bottas but had a horrible weekend last time). So how on earth they expect them to be within 3 tenths only a week later, same tracks, in conditions that do no favor high-rake concepts is a big question mark too. Even if he didn't have the Vettel moment, he would have been at least 6 to 7 tenths behind the Mercedes as is expected based on the quali performance from the first race.

I sometimes fear Max and his management is under te spell of these false promises by Marko and Horner and that is why he keeps re-signing contracts with them, when everyone else basically sees that they are not near Mercedes and that if he is serious about getting WDC's even if it means less money (his words) he should sign with Mercedes when given the chance.

He's already had a couple of chances. When he signed the new 2018-2020 contract, in 2017 when Rosberg retired but he was already contracted to RBR then. It's also weird to hear him keep saying many drivers would have won world titles in the Mercedes. Well sure they would but probably not with the other car number being 44. It's logical to ask then if it was so easy to win in the Mercedes why did you reject their offers and keep re-signing with Red Bull?

[Pyrone89]

It is rather funny to listen to them at times. I honestly get the impression that they think others are clueless all the time. That two to three tenths is clearly utter BS and it’s not even hard to disprove (As Sky in the UK proved).

For starters, last week we saw the RB16 is at least more than 5 tenths away from Bottas in dry conditions, let alone Hamilton (who is better than Bottas but had a horrible weekend last time). So how on earth they expect them to be within 3 tenths only a week later, same tracks, in conditions that do no favor high-rake concepts is a big question mark too. Even if he didn't have the Vettel moment, he would have been at least 6 to 7 tenths behind the Mercedes as is expected based on the quali performance from the first race.

I sometimes fear Max and his management is under te spell of these false promises by Marko and Horner and that is why he keeps re-signing contracts with them, when everyone else basically sees that they are not near Mercedes and that if he is serious about getting WDC's even if it means less money (his words) he should sign with Mercedes when given the chance.

He's already had a couple of chances. When he signed the new 2018-2020 contract, in 2017 when Rosberg retired but he was already contracted to RBR then. It's also weird to hear him keep saying many drivers would have won world titles in the Mercedes. Well sure they would but probably not with the other car number being 44. It's logical to ask then if it was so easy to win in the Mercedes why did you reject their offers and keep re-signing with Red Bull?

Do we have any sources for this, that he could have signed after Rosberg left? That he was not bound by RB-activated options or the Mercedes contract stipulated a nr. 2 role? Because the same people saying Mercedes never goes for 2 nr. 1's again are saying he had the chance. Make up your mind. Please show me a reliable source he had the option.

And I think Hamilton would still be a 4 or 5 times WDC now if he had Verstappen in equal cars, with them sharing titles since 2017. But let's not derail this topic.

[Restomaniac]

What do you expect from Horner and Marko. Yesterday to German media Marko was bleating that the 1.2 seconds wasn't representative and both him and Horner said that the gap to Lewis would have been two to three tenths without the spin. I don't know what qualifying they were watching but Lewis was already 6-7 tenths on Max's lap on his own last lap. Also in Hockenheim 19 post race Marko straight up made BS claims like Max was 5 seconds faster than anyone when he was stuck behind Bottas for much of the race. Of course Max is superlative in the rain but I honestly suspect that he is half embarrassed at times by the garbage that comes out of Marko's and Horner's mouth often. How difficult is it to simply admit that your competition was on a different level.

It is rather funny to listen to them at times. I honestly get the impression that they think others are clueless all the time. That two to three tenths is clearly utter BS and it’s not even hard to disprove (As Sky in the UK proved).

For starters, last week we saw the RB16 is at least more than 5 tenths away from Bottas in dry conditions, let alone Hamilton (who is better than Bottas but had a horrible weekend last time). So how on earth they expect them to be within 3 tenths only a week later, same tracks, in conditions that do no favor high-rake concepts is a big question mark too. Even if he didn't have the Vettel moment, he would have been at least 6 to 7 tenths behind the Mercedes as is expected based on the quali performance from the first race.

I sometimes fear Max and his management is under te spell of these false promises by Marko and Horner and that is why he keeps re-signing contracts with them, when everyone else basically sees that they are not near Mercedes and that if he is serious about getting WDC's even if it means less money (his words) he should sign with Mercedes when given the chance.

The 6 to 7 tenths was confirmed on Sky too by looking at the frames (frames per second) he was behind before his spin it didn’t even need any other thinking there was clear evidence. To try and pass off 2 to 3 tenths is full on BS that passes no tests.

[Restomaniac]

I think a large part of that stability is his excellent car control at the limit. Watching the lap he uses minimal steering input, opting to rotate the car through braking or throttle control. It was a really amazing lap IMO.

It was also the last lap so he did not have in mind that an off would finish his session. Nothing to lose, no safety margin, balls out

True. I also forgot to mention that he did this on a very short circuit... That gap in such a short track makes it even more impressive IMO. I really feel bad that didn't get to watch this live...

It was extraordinary. As he crossed the line and his time popped up I didn’t wonder if there was a mistake as he was SO far ahead.

[Pyrone89]

It is rather funny to listen to them at times. I honestly get the impression that they think others are clueless all the time. That two to three tenths is clearly utter BS and it’s not even hard to disprove (As Sky in the UK proved).

For starters, last week we saw the RB16 is at least more than 5 tenths away from Bottas in dry conditions, let alone Hamilton (who is better than Bottas but had a horrible weekend last time). So how on earth they expect them to be within 3 tenths only a week later, same tracks, in conditions that do no favor high-rake concepts is a big question mark too. Even if he didn't have the Vettel moment, he would have been at least 6 to 7 tenths behind the Mercedes as is expected based on the quali performance from the first race.

I sometimes fear Max and his management is under te spell of these false promises by Marko and Horner and that is why he keeps re-signing contracts with them, when everyone else basically sees that they are not near Mercedes and that if he is serious about getting WDC's even if it means less money (his words) he should sign with Mercedes when given the chance.

The 6 to 7 tenths was confirmed on Sky too by looking at the frames (frames per second) he was behind before his spin it didn’t even need any other thinking there was clear evidence. To try and pass off 2 to 3 tenths is full on BS that passes no tests.

Yes, so we are saying the same thing? Marko and Horner are full of BS when it comes to hyping up the pace

[dans79]

So did Stroll. I am talking actual race long performances.

The 2013 williams was way worse than the 2017 williams. The 2013 williams finished in the points 2 times, the 2017 one did it 20 times.

So NOW suddenly relative car performance matters?

I think you need to keep better track of who you're actually responding to because I never said it didn't.

[Restomaniac]

For starters, last week we saw the RB16 is at least more than 5 tenths away from Bottas in dry conditions, let alone Hamilton (who is better than Bottas but had a horrible weekend last time). So how on earth they expect them to be within 3 tenths only a week later, same tracks, in conditions that do no favor high-rake concepts is a big question mark too. Even if he didn't have the Vettel moment, he would have been at least 6 to 7 tenths behind the Mercedes as is expected based on the quali performance from the first race.

I sometimes fear Max and his management is under te spell of these false promises by Marko and Horner and that is why he keeps re-signing contracts with them, when everyone else basically sees that they are not near Mercedes and that if he is serious about getting WDC's even if it means less money (his words) he should sign with Mercedes when given the chance.

The 6 to 7 tenths was confirmed on Sky too by looking at the frames (frames per second) he was behind before his spin it didn’t even need any other thinking there was clear evidence. To try and pass off 2 to 3 tenths is full on BS that passes no tests.

Yes, so we are saying the same thing? Marko and Horner are full of BS when it comes to hyping up the pace

Yep.

[Restomaniac]

If Hamilton gets away clear he wins without mechanical issues. In fact if he’s #1 into corner 1 he just drives into the distance.

[search]

probably, I thought the green track could potentially mix up the start a bit more, but both in F2 as well as in the Porsche Cup it looked like those on the racing line had still (or even more of, for whatever reason) an advantage getting off the line.