[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[Big Tea]

this is another point of view and points very important thing.

Ralf Schumacher: "Red Bull needs a fast second driver"

One of the problems that Red Bull has been experiencing in recent years is that it is putting pressure on Mercedes with only one vehicle in the front section. For this reason, the German manufacturer gets the chance to hunt Red Bull with different strategies.

Ralf Schumacher said: “Alex is very slow. It's always half a second slower than Max. Sometimes this difference increases even more depending on the track. "

Did he say anything about the gap between Hamilton and Botas? (rhetorical question ) It is often around the same
As I said in another post, how many more drivers are they going to test against Max?
He has an excuse (Ralf that is) in that he has to produce something to put in his article, and if its repeated so much the better. I think (almost) everyone would like to see him closer to Max but would that than mean he was good enough to be a number one driver in another team?

I am nit disagreeing RBR need a better driver to compliment Max, but where are they going to find him?

[HPD]

I am nit disagreeing RBR need a better driver to compliment Max, but where are they going to find him?

His name was Carlos Sainz...
If Albon doesn't raise his head. I think Vettel can come back

[McMika98]

I don't know if I missed where it's discussed but any reason for Albons poor pace and why Max did not get fastest lap?

From my understanding, he never found a setup that he's comfortable this whole weekend. Understeer on Friday, oversteer on Saturday (wet).

Very odd and poor drive by Albon. He was the only driver to drive slower than last week. Last week he was doing 109.4 on used tyres when Lewis was hunting him and once Lewis passed he dropped by a second. This week he was much slower on new soft 110s and only improved pace towards the end.
The engine mode can be around half a second. Before Perez caught him he started lapping half a second quicker.
Unusual that even after a back to back Redbull can't find a good setup. I feel that Max was using full engine modes at the beginning and pushing. His medium tyre stint was much slower than Perez and even Albon was lapping quicker at the end. The Pitstop I feel was necessary because the Redbull were chewing the tyres, even Alpha Tauri had same issues.

[TNTHead]

I am nit disagreeing RBR need a better driver to compliment Max, but where are they going to find him?

His name was Carlos Sainz...
If Albon doesn't raise his head. I think Vettel can come back

A year ago I thought that Albon could cope with a twitchy car better than Gasly, bit he still struggles.
As Kees van der Grint (a Dutch F1 tyre specialist and self proclaimed F1 commentator) states: the second driver reveals the true pace of the car. With that reasoning RB is at Racing Point level at the moment, with Mercedes far away.

Vettel is also a driver who is very sensitive to unstable handling, so although he's top tier, he'll probably be behind VER as well.

[Big Tea]

I am nit disagreeing RBR need a better driver to compliment Max, but where are they going to find him?

His name was Carlos Sainz...
If Albon doesn't raise his head. I think Vettel can come back

A year ago I thought that Albon could cope with a twitchy car better than Gasly, bit he still struggles.
As Kees van der Grint (a Dutch F1 tyre specialist and self proclaimed F1 commentator) states: the second driver reveals the true pace of the car. With that reasoning RB is at Racing Point level at the moment, with Mercedes far away.

Vettel is also a driver who is very sensitive to unstable handling, so although he's top tier, he'll probably be behind VER as well.

I think this is probably it. Max has a way with the loose. Albon seemed to start well, but after getting dumped a couple of times after not being able to recover a twitch seems unsure of the car. Any driver needs confidence to push beyond a point that feels safe and because of his reactions Max has that point deeper in than most drivers.
Albon had mentioned the 'twitch' a few times.

[littlebigcat]

I think it will always be difficult to compare Albon vs Verstappen as I think fundamentally Max will always have the best parts on his car. It's why Riccardio left. This is different from say Hamilton vs Bottas as Mercedes always seem to run both cars in the same spec. That half a second could only be a couple of tenths, and in reality that isn't too shabby against Max.

[Pyrone89]

I think it will always be difficult to compare Albon vs Verstappen as I think fundamentally Max will always have the best parts on his car. It's why Riccardio left. This is different from say Hamilton vs Bottas as Mercedes always seem to run both cars in the same spec. That half a second could only be a couple of tenths, and in reality that isn't too shabby against Max.

[godlameroso]

There's no point in strategy vs Mercedes at this point. The gap is too great to overcome with strategy, luck is needed, and an lapse in judgement on their part. Both engine and chassis can improve, they need to, because right now they're just a little too slow. Max's pace was that of a two stop, he pushed like mad all race, the frustration ended with him damaging the car, he knew he couldn't fend off Bottas but he'd try. Ended up burning up his tires in the process. Oh well, we'll see if the two stop works better in Hungary than it would have here. It was the winning strategy last year, although I feel Hamilton likely would have won it had Verstappen two stopped as well.

Another tricky weekend in Budapest with the temperature ramping up and clearing up throughout the weekend with race day being the hottest. Not a lot of rain is expected, although it could spit during either FP session.

The hard tire may be the only tire that can survive the heat and load put on it on race day.

[langedweil]

Now to say it was a disastrous decision for Red Bull is a moot point. Its about how well teams respond to these rule changes that matters the most in the competition. Mercedes went from high rake to low rake, from shorter wheel base to longer wheel base and encountered challenges along the way, but that team found solutions to fix the problems.

Ehm, no .. they've had low rake and longer wheelbase a long time before 2018, and this was entirely clear when this simpler FW directive came about.
It was always going to effect high rake/short(er) wheelbase a lot harder.

Show me one single credible article or post here on forums with some logic to define why it would hit the cars with high rake that predicted this before the cars hit the ground in 2019. I remember reading hundreds of post justifying High Rake is the way to go with the new, simplified front wing.

Perhaps a memory glitch ?
High rake does offer some incredible features over low rake, however it is relying much much more on perfectly sealing the floor aerodynamically.
A whole lot more than low raked cars such as the Merc, that with their longer platform is A. less susceptible to breaking the floor sealing and B. has more floor to generate downforce with.
The 2018 FW's were masterpieces (not only RB's) in generating and controlling the vortices that sealed the floors; a guy like Newey probably dreamt for decades about the Y250 vortex.
But nowadays things became way more complicated than just that; ERS added an important yet complex layer, and with converging raw PU power you see that maximum power is starting to get overshadowed by things like drivability and reliability.

And yet .. with a significant lower ranked PU, RB was still able to win races on merit. So, we will never know ofcourse, but a high-raked RB with a perfectly fitted Merc engine, the outcome of the last race would have been a hell of lot more exiting. The homologation for this year and 2021 will make these years the biggest borefest ever. Hope I'm wrong though.
And with RP/AM next yr on this years Merc Platform + PU plus McL with a Merc might force RB maybe to be only the 4th quickest team.

[McMika98]

Perhaps a memory glitch ?
High rake does offer some incredible features over low rake, however it is relying much much more on perfectly sealing the floor aerodynamically.
A whole lot more than low raked cars such as the Merc, that with their longer platform is A. less susceptible to breaking the floor sealing and B. has more floor to generate downforce with.
The 2018 FW's were masterpieces (not only RB's) in generating and controlling the vortices that sealed the floors; a guy like Newey probably dreamt for decades about the Y250 vortex.

And yet .. with a significant lower ranked PU, RB was still able to win races on merit.

Hmm, maybe you was asleep for the last few years.
Yiu didn't mention a single advantage that the high rake offers. Newey isn't an aerodynamicist the likes of Peter P is who pushed the high rake at Mclaren and look where they are now. Racing point and even Renault all used very high level of rake. The downforce advantage from higher rake can be matched by having longer floor, that was one of the advantage especially when they had blown diffuser.
The 3 wins in 2018 by Redbull is nothing to write about, only Monaco was by merit and Merc had very poor slow corner turning characteristics which is no longer the case. The shorter wheelbase made the car nimble but now with clever seering and suspension arrangement this can be done far on much longer wheelbase.
The Redbull is poor in windy conditions.

[Just_a_fan]

As Kees van der Grint (a Dutch F1 tyre specialist and self proclaimed F1 commentator) states: the second driver reveals the true pace of the car. With that reasoning RB is at Racing Point level at the moment, with Mercedes far away.

He's absolutely, 100% incorrect, of course. The faster driver is closest to the true pace of the car. No driver can drive faster than the car can physically go - it's impossible. The best drivers just get closer to the best lap time the car/tyre combination can give at any point.

[etusch]

As Kees van der Grint (a Dutch F1 tyre specialist and self proclaimed F1 commentator) states: the second driver reveals the true pace of the car. With that reasoning RB is at Racing Point level at the moment, with Mercedes far away.

He's absolutely, 100% incorrect, of course. The faster driver is closest to the true pace of the car. No driver can drive faster than the car can physically go - it's impossible. The best drivers just get closer to the best lap time the car/tyre combination can give at any point.

you are right but I think he also right. Just different things. If second driver also faster than others, as he is less ability to drive fast, this means car is fast car and 1st driver can go much faster. you can think like that, Albon is behind Verstappen with same margine and he is as fast as Verstappen today. In this condition, in last race Albon would fight with Bottas and Verstappen will be 40 second ahead of Albon and also ahead of Hamilton.

[Marti_EF3]

Race pace



Best Sectors



Stint 1



Stint 2

[ispano6]

I feel Red Bull's blunder was their track day in Silverstone instead of the Red Bull Ring. How did they let Renault run the track and not do film day there themselves and shake down the car before hand? It's their home course. Red Bull could have capitalized on Mercedes issues first race plus hotter favorable conditions but blew it.

[Moore77]

Ehm, no .. they've had low rake and longer wheelbase a long time before 2018, and this was entirely clear when this simpler FW directive came about.
It was always going to effect high rake/short(er) wheelbase a lot harder.

Show me one single credible article or post here on forums with some logic to define why it would hit the cars with high rake that predicted this before the cars hit the ground in 2019. I remember reading hundreds of post justifying High Rake is the way to go with the new, simplified front wing.

Perhaps a memory glitch ?
High rake does offer some incredible features over low rake, however it is relying much much more on perfectly sealing the floor aerodynamically.
A whole lot more than low raked cars such as the Merc, that with their longer platform is A. less susceptible to breaking the floor sealing and B. has more floor to generate downforce with.
The 2018 FW's were masterpieces (not only RB's) in generating and controlling the vortices that sealed the floors; a guy like Newey probably dreamt for decades about the Y250 vortex.
But nowadays things became way more complicated than just that; ERS added an important yet complex layer, and with converging raw PU power you see that maximum power is starting to get overshadowed by things like drivability and reliability.

And yet .. with a significant lower ranked PU, RB was still able to win races on merit. So, we will never know ofcourse, but a high-raked RB with a perfectly fitted Merc engine, the outcome of the last race would have been a hell of lot more exiting. The homologation for this year and 2021 will make these years the biggest borefest ever. Hope I'm wrong though.
And with RP/AM next yr on this years Merc Platform + PU plus McL with a Merc might force RB maybe to be only the 4th quickest team.

I asked for a simple proof of this prediction done before the cars hit ground in 2019 and you started typing same things that is being repeated over and over again. I have followed Newey's genius designs for ages now and especially with Red Bull era and I know how effective his designs have been.

Once again I am asking, please show a single article or a post on this from that predicted the simplified wings hurting high rake cars more than low rake, before the cars hit the ground in preseason.