Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[63l8qrrfy6]

Either way it's Honda's responsibility to define a safe engine operating envelope.

It is the customer's responsibility to operate the engine within that envelope. RBR can opt to use the highest modes for as long as they want with the caveat that reliability would no longer be guaranteed.

[nzjrs]

Think so. Tanabe recently said he first wants to squeeze everything out of this concept before start developing another one. That could indicate that the higher engine modes can be used longer as soon as they verified this engine spec on a low altitude track. Hope is on Hungary then.

Wazari-san, could you maybe shed some light on how the interim/fast-tracked engine specification this year relates the development plan Honda was following until now? (for example I thought this year was the planned debut for your combustion concept)

[ENGINE TUNER]

That is forbidden and not possible due to the spec ECU. And as you can see he has massive issues getting the power down unlike the Mercedes. Honda needs to work on their rain mapping for the 2020 engine.

What you are hearing is most likely wheel spin even in 3rd gear.

I know it is impossible, that's why I'm puzzled. It did sound like cylinder cutting though. Maybe they cut ignition on part throttle?

This is known behaviour from Honda. Part throttle there is plenty of cylinder cutting going on. Wet conditions they probably make it more apparent.

As for throttle mapping. Max has already spoken highly of how tractable the throttle is with the Honda compared to the Renault. So I don't think the mapping is the issue.

Watching the onboard cams, power down looks fine. Renault and Fez powered cars have mor eissues coming out of 3 especially.

Interesting point to note... Before Lewis' last lap, Bono comes on the radio and says "for this last one, let's have magic on, switch magic to on", then watching, his power down out/traction out of corners was fantastic! Borderline insane for the conditions!

What magic was he referring to? I've only heard of "brake magic" which is supposedly merely a special brake bias setting. This is a very interesting radio call. Unfortunately the radio calls are not included on the YouTube video of his magical lap.

[PlatinumZealot]

I fear the season is going to be tough since Honda is not allowed to upgrade the performance of the engine. That means whatever advantage Mercedes has is unsurmountable this year. At least the performance of the power unit isn't as dreadful as Ferrari's is this year.

Why have I been hearing that one upgrade will be allowed?

[PlatinumZealot]

But even that extra 1-2% will most likely require running a few more engines to the end of their expected life on the dyno to prove out the new duty cycle and that will eat into the limited dyno time, impacting development for next year.

DNFs are costly this season and RBR have already bagged a couple in the first 2 races.

I think Marko should mind his own bussiness and leave Honda to it.

This!!
Marko has nothing to do with what engine modes get selected and when. He can only cry to Horner about it. Then Horner asks Honda. And Honda will have done their maths to know the best compromise for winning a race versus getting maximum points over the season.

[Pyrone89]

I fear the season is going to be tough since Honda is not allowed to upgrade the performance of the engine. That means whatever advantage Mercedes has is unsurmountable this year. At least the performance of the power unit isn't as dreadful as Ferrari's is this year.

Why have I been hearing that one upgrade will be allowed?

That is 2021. I posted the table a while ago

[GhostF1]

RB are definitely piling the pressure on Honda in the press. Horner is convinced all the time lost to Merc is on the straights only and that they lose nothing in the corners (which I find surprising seeing as both drivers have complained about the balance of the car on both weekends)...

During qualifying, Red Bull were second only to Mercedes engines on the straights and we are talking only a few kph. So they are definitely not lacking massively in the power department. Honda have publicly said they were surprised at the engine step Mercedes has found over the winter as they were expecting to be on pace with them from the get go. They do mention the difference during the race is marginal though (this also makes me ponder Horner's claims the time loss is only on the straights).

As for race speeds, if you have the ability to view F1 TV and look at the actual traces and onboards. Merc and Honda (across all teams) are basically level pegging, the only differences were Mercedes had more clear engine mode increases during the race watching Bottas. Alex was given a bump as Perez closed (and immediately started lapping faster than Max) and he held him off impressively for a number of laps to the end. The Renault (and obviously Ferrari) during the race when they've all settled down are not quite reaching the same speeds, this includes looking at Alpha Tauri against Renault/McLaren.

So Honda's biggest issue is not a total power deficit on the field, they are quite clearly number 2 at the moment, their main issue is still being second to Merc who have pulled a gap when they expected to be equal or just above. I think the PU upgrade restriction for this season has hurt them.

[godlameroso]

Honda and Red Bull are both clearly second best. Verstappen is making miracles happen with that car, Albon has not been much of an upgrade over Gasly. Even if the car is made for Verstappen's driving style and the second car is a development car, it still shouldn't be such a massive gap. Verstappen only started slowing down because he damaged the car, which goes to show how hard he's pushing. It's frustrating being so close yet so far away, and no matter how good you drive it's not enough. It's frustrating for the team as well because of the effort and dedication to winning only to come up short. Like chasing a dangling carrot, Mercedes always being one step ahead, they have pace in hand, they can afford more mistakes, can charge through the field. We don't even know if Red Bull is pushing Mercedes to the limit or if they still have more in hand.

Luckily reliability upgrades are still possible, so maybe running what you have, more aggressively can make some inroads.

[GhostF1]

Honda and Red Bull are both clearly second best. Verstappen is making miracles happen with that car, Albon has not been much of an upgrade over Gasly. Even if the car is made for Verstappen's driving style and the second car is a development car, it still shouldn't be such a massive gap. Verstappen only started slowing down because he damaged the car, which goes to show how hard he's pushing. It's frustrating being so close yet so far away, and no matter how good you drive it's not enough. It's frustrating for the team as well because of the effort and dedication to winning only to come up short. Like chasing a dangling carrot, Mercedes always being one step ahead, they have pace in hand, they can afford more mistakes, can charge through the field. We don't even know if Red Bull is pushing Mercedes to the limit or if they still have more in hand.

Luckily reliability upgrades are still possible, so maybe running what you have, more aggressively can make some inroads.

Honestly, I think Alex was on a strat where he was told to look after the softs, go long and bank on a safety car to be honest. First stint he was 0.7-1.0 slower than Max per lap. Then after that clearly wasn't happening when they wanted, he came in, jumped onto mediums and was immediately only 0.2-0.3 per lap slower than Max (Max prior to wing damage) and for the final 15 laps, he was lapping faster than Valtteri. So his pace is there, the strategy calls absolutely sucked, for both Max and Alex. See how we go in Hungary.

[GhostF1]

I stand corrected, it looks like Honda are at an ERS disadvantage. I re-watched a larger portion of the race on each onboard and you can see Merc are gaining their time at the end of the straight leading up to T3 and the end of the straight leading up to T4. The Red Bulls start clipping much earlier on a majority of the laps, as such lose out on top speed as well, there is a scattered bunch of laps where RB are given more ERS and clip later, but Merc seem to just in general clip way deeper into the corner approach, much more consistently.

There's a radio call to Max where he is told a certain mode will help compensate for the clipping. I'd assume this is a higher power ICE mode, so more pressure on the engine itself. Can't be certain though.

[godlameroso]

Probably the same .5 second deficit, hopefully the heat throws Mercedes a curveball.

[McMika98]

I stand corrected, it looks like Honda are at an ERS disadvantage. I re-watched a larger portion of the race on each onboard and you can see Merc are gaining their time at the end of the straight leading up to T3 and the end of the straight leading up to T4.

There's a radio call to Max where he is told a certain mode will help compensate for the clipping. I'd assume this is a higher power ICE mode, so more pressure on the engine itself. Can't be certain though.

Look at Perez vs Albon, even with DRS he could not overtake Albon despite using full battery which you would not do in race condition. Bottas was able to overtake because of tyre advantage over Max who was pushing from the first lap.

Alex pace was odd, fast enough to overtake Renault and Mclaren but after building a gap of few seconds he would lap at their pace. Also most teams improved race pace from last week, Alex was slower despite using new tyres. Looking at laptimes from last year, the midfield pack have made a big jump forward.

[etusch]

I stand corrected, it looks like Honda are at an ERS disadvantage. I re-watched a larger portion of the race on each onboard and you can see Merc are gaining their time at the end of the straight leading up to T3 and the end of the straight leading up to T4.

There's a radio call to Max where he is told a certain mode will help compensate for the clipping. I'd assume this is a higher power ICE mode, so more pressure on the engine itself. Can't be certain though.

Look at Perez vs Albon, even with DRS he could not overtake Albon despite using full battery which you would not do in race condition. Bottas was able to overtake because of tyre advantage over Max who was pushing from the first lap.

Alex pace was odd, fast enough to overtake Renault and Mclaren but after building a gap of few seconds he would lap at their pace. Also most teams improved race pace from last week, Alex was slower despite using new tyres. Looking at laptimes from last year, the midfield pack have made a big jump forward.

Albon could go faster what we understand from that. But if he would have gone faster his tyres would be gone what we understand from Verstappen. So roughly we can say that Albon's pace was Redbull's capasity when the car polite with tyres

[IvailoStefanovBG]

I stand corrected, ....

I`m sorry for my stupid question, but how do you understand when they start clipping from onboard camera?

[seense]

I stand corrected, ....

I`m sorry for my stupid question, but how do you understand when they start clipping from onboard camera?

Because he read this article :

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 0dAn3.html